Why do Westerners get it so wrong?

JOHANNESBURG - There is a long and ignoble tradition of Western intellectuals taking an interest in foreign regimes and getting it horribly wrong. One of the most notorious examples of this is Sidney and Beatrice Webb's 1935 "Soviet Communism: A New Civilisation". It is exquisite apologia for the Stalinist system written by two of England's foremost social scientists. The third edition, published as a single volume, runs to a full 1007 pages.

At one point the authors address the question of whether Joseph Stalin is "in effect, a dictator" as some of his detractors had claimed. They reply that "We have given particular attention to this point, collecting all the available evidence, and noting carefully the inferences to be drawn from the experience of the past eight years (1926-1934). We do not think that the Party is governed by the will of a single person; or that a Stalin is the sort of person to claim or desire such a position. He has himself very explicitly denied any such personal dictatorship in terms which, whether or not he is credited with sincerity, certainly accord with our own impressions."

It was commonplace, at the time, for the very clever to write such nonsense. In his 1945 essay Notes on Nationalism George Orwell wrote of how many literary intellectuals had come to strongly identify with Soviet Russia. Such a transfer of loyalties, from their own nation to an alien one, had led fairly sensitive and intelligent people to write "slavish or boastful rubbish" about Stalin, the Red Army and so on.

For an intellectual, Orwell noted, such "transference" had an important function. "It makes it possible for him to be much more nationalistic - more vulgar, more silly, more malignant, more dishonest - that he could ever be on behalf of his native country, or any unit of which he had real knowledge."

The God of Soviet Communism failed long ago. But there is an enduring tendency for Western intellectuals to identify strongly with foreign causes they do not really understand, and write mindlessly about them. This stands in marked contrast to the rigorous and critical stance they have to take in analysing their own societies - if they are to maintain their reputations and the respect of their peers.

There was a striking example of this disjuncture in the recent lecture, in Johannesburg, by Margaret Marshall the Chief Justice of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court (see here- PDF). Marshall was born in South Africa, studied at Wits University, and served courageously as NUSAS president in 1967. She left the country in 1968 to study in the United States and has not looked back, pursuing a distinguished legal career in her adopted country.

In November Marshall was invited to Johannesburg to deliver the Bram Fischer Memorial Lecture by the Legal Services Trust. At the beginning of her address she stated that "I do not presume to speak with authority about the South African experience. Rather, this evening I offer an American perspective on judicial independence."

Her comments on the United States were critical and insightful, and in certain respects, highly relevant to South Africa. She stated, at one point, "Trial judges, and all those who bear the weighty burden of judicial authority in a constitutional democracy, must possess a deep knowledge of the law and skill in its practice."

Her limited comments on the judiciary South Africa, however, managed to be both slavish and boastful. On the issue of "diversity" on the bench Marshall stated: "In its fifteen years of constitutional democracy, South Africa has made remarkable strides in creating a diverse judiciary of distinction. You have done so on a far faster, and more impressive scale than we have.... The diversity of your courts is, and should be, great cause for pride and celebration."

This statement, clearly intended to flatter her South African audience, actually showed great contempt for it - given the manner in which individuals like Nkola Motata and John Hlophe have recently brought the judiciary into disrepute. It also revealed a deep lack of knowledge or concern over what has happened to the South African judiciary over the past decade.

After 1994 the initial intention, at least of those with the best interests of the judiciary at heart, was to balance the desire for a more racially diverse bench with the need to maintain its professionalism and integrity. The 1994 Judicial Service Commission "Guidelines for Questioning Candidates for Nomination to the Constitutional Court" stated that attaining a broadly representative judiciary "cannot be understood to refer to a need to constitute a court which represents the races and genders in direct proportion to their share of the national population".

There was an understanding then that judges still needed ‘a deep knowledge of the law and skill in its practice.' However in October 1998 the ANC wrestled control of judicial appointments away from the lawyers on the JSC. From then onwards the attainment of a judiciary which reflected the composition of the total population became the overriding concern. The merit and expertise of the individual applicants was hardly considered relevant at all - although several good appointments still managed to slip through the net.

In 2004 the Minister of Justice Brigette Mabandla boasted, in parliament, how "of the 53 new judges appointed since 1994, 89% of them are black." This trend has continued, and as of July 2009 the proportion of white South Africans on the bench had successfully been reduced to 44,1% of the total, well below their proportion of the legal profession (see here).

In October 2006 Judge Azhar Cachalia warned that the JSC that it had "made mistakes" in its approach to appointments, and "those chickens are now coming home to roost." As an acting judge on the Supreme Court of Appeal he had had to deal with appeals against "shocking" high court judgments that contained the "kind of mistakes that should not be tolerated." (Cape Times October 16 2006)

After a brief respite during the Motlanthe presidency, the Zuma government is proceeding aggressively onwards with the implementation of pure racial and gender proportionality on the bench.

In an address to parliament in June Zuma stated "The transformation of the judiciary entails amongst others having a court system that the people of South Africa have confidence in. Obviously as part of this, we need to ensure that judicial officers reflect the demographics of our country." To give effect to this objective he has appointed a Minister of Justice, Jeff Radebe, obsessed with the achieving this outcome, and nominated a number of racially driven individuals to the JSC who can be relied upon to implement it.

Minority applicants who dare apply for appointment have, under the Zuma presidency, been subjected to a modern variant of ‘trial by drowning'. They are asked by the racial psychopaths on the JSC if they support the ideal of ‘demographic representivity.' If they say no, they are excluded from consideration for having opposed ‘transformation'. If they say ‘yes' they self-exclude themselves, as their appointment would quite obviously obstruct the attainment of this goal.

So, Marshall is certainly correct to claim that the ANC has attained its racial goals in the judiciary speedily and on an impressive scale. Whether this is "great cause for pride and celebration" is more open to question.

It represents, for one thing, the triumph of extreme racism. One of the founding texts of modern German anti-Semitism - Adolf Stoecker's 1879 pamphlet "What we Demand of Modern Jewry" - called for the "limitation of appointments of Jewish judges in proportion to the size of the population." Should South Africa really be proud that, a hundred and thirty years later, the ANC has adopted the same limitation, when it comes to the appointment of white (including Jewish) judges in South Africa?

It is also untrue to pretend, as Marshall does, that this has done no harm to the quality of justice in South Africa. As a matter of simple arithmetic: excluding three quarters of the legal profession, including the great majority of your top advocates, from appointment to the bench can hardly do the institution any good.

Some of South Africa's foremost jurists have raised concerns over the way in which poor appointments, by a race obsessed JSC, have harmed the integrity of the judiciary and the administration of justice. Most recently Judge Johann Kriegler stated that the way in which the JSC was executing its mandate constituted a threat to the independence of the judiciary.

Before delivering her lecture, Marshall should have taken some time to properly acquaint herself with what has been happening in South Africa. As it is, her comments, such as they were, bore no relation to the actual lived reality. Moreover, they can be read as an endorsement of the agenda of the thugs and racists currently in charge.

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SAcan White Liberals indoctrinated the West on South Africa.... James, Westerners get it so completely wrong because they have been indoctrinated over decades to held fast to certain views on South Africa. This indoctrination was done by the South African Anglo Left, who in what is a continuation of the Boer . .more War, set out to enable the ANC and destroy Afrikaners. Now I personally sat through lectures of Madam Suzman overseas on her lecture tours to isolate South Africa and to enable international support for the ANC. She was not alone in this activity, and many famous South Africans in the White Left worked hard to achieve these goals, which include the installation of the ANC, and of course, the defeat of the natural enemies of the Colonial English, the Boers. In this roster of people I would put Donald Woods, Joe Slovo, and perhaps the most influential, Trevor Huddleston, whose press-releases almost daily as Anglican Archbishop, defined the perception of SA in the West. These brilliant marketing forces created the reality of SA as evil, unworthy, immoral, to the point that reform cannot absolve her, only complete transformation and perhaps destruction, would do. Thus the picture emerged of SA as an evil state which can only be washed clean through ANC hegemony, black supremacy (to prove the worthiness of blacks in that context), and retribution via oppressive laws targeting whites . .less by JVR on December 02 2009, 06:17 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Myburgh James, real intellectuals like you, Trewhela, Kane-Berman, are the new George Orwell. Brilliant! and thanks. by js on December 02 2009, 06:52 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

western intellectuals These so-called western intellectuals are mostly a bunch of wimps who try to parade their cleverness by scoring points off each other and impress their groupies. by js on December 02 2009, 06:56 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@JvR In your tirade against the white left, I have noticed that the terms, justice, ethics and morality do not exist in your vocabulary. by Koos on December 02 2009, 07:17 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

opinion the reason is that your opinion can only be as good as your information by jaap on December 02 2009, 08:17 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

The fatefull truth Transformation above all. Nevermind that it kills health care, the judiciary the civil service and anything else. Ironically the likes of Zuma prefers white lawyers to defend his dastardly deeds in court. As for Jeff, the biggest failure known . .more to man in charge of the judiciary. An this lot was upset with Huntley for telling the truth in Canada. It is also interesting to see people like Marshall, who ran away from the dastardly apartheid, are not fallling over their feet to return to tyhe liberated and fair South Africa they fought so hard for. See: http://letterdash.com/g.annandale/npa-independence-and-political-sensitivity . .less by Geanann on December 02 2009, 08:35 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Great read Very insightful - do South Africans have more confidence in the courts now than 10 years ago - I sure as hell don't. The criminals laugh at the courts. The politicians rape the country unchecked. Trials drag on for ever. And the lawyers get rich. All in . .more all a very unsatisfactory situation. The ANC idea of democracy is they love it as long as everyone votes for them. And they love an independent judiciary, as long as the judges are sympathetic to them. The fact that the ANC believe that fair justice can only happen if the judge is the same colour as the person on trial is so racist in its thinking yet the ANC are total blind to this as they relentlessly pursue their racial engineering policies to create "transformation". . .less by Sad days on December 02 2009, 08:50 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

higher law The problem with the implementation of justice, ethics and morality (the social contract) is the assumption that all parties will substitute individual or constituent interests for a 'higher law' (one that everyone would choose prior to obtaining . .more 'interests', an ideal that forms the bedrock of equality (whatever that means), fairness, justice and long-term stability ... and contentment?). Not to say that they are the first in a South Africa context, but the ANC is completely flouting these ideals and increasingly along racial lines, making it more and more difficult to distinguish their conduct from the Nationalist governments that they so strongly opposed. It makes a joke of the 'cause' that they claimed to champion. Seems that it is the underdog that appeals most strongly to principle. And makes one wonder how these ideals have ever managed to become enshrined in systems of governance and power. From where stand in South Africa, the path seems to be leading further away, instead of toward, our ideals. It seems so obvious, yet we make it so difficult to achieve. I firmly believe that our modern political systems are outdated, they do not bring our best to the fore, most typically exhibitionists. . .less by DW on December 02 2009, 08:56 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

All occupations should then be made representative of the population. Force whites to become unskilled and manual labour, e.g. rubbish collection, gardening, digging trenches for Neotel, etc. by RY on December 02 2009, 08:59 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

LAW101 Westerners DO NOT get it wrong. Just because they do not say what you want to hear, does not make their opinions incorrect. by Paralegal on December 02 2009, 09:07 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

higher lore The problem with the implementation of justice, ethics and morality (the social contract) is the assumption that all parties will substitute individual or constituent interests for a 'higher law' (one that everyone would choose prior to obtaining . .more 'interests', an ideal that forms the bedrock of equality (whatever that means), fairness, justice and long-term stability ... and contentment?). Not to say that they are the first in a South Africa context, but the ANC is completely flouting these ideals and increasingly along racial lines, making it more and more difficult to distinguish their conduct from the Nationalist governments that they so strongly opposed. It makes a joke of the 'cause' that they claimed to champion. Seems that it is the underdog that appeals most strongly to principle. And makes one wonder how these ideals have ever managed to become enshrined in systems of governance and power. From where stand in South Africa, the path seems to be leading further away, instead of toward, our ideals. It seems so obvious, yet we make it so difficult to achieve. I firmly believe that our modern political systems are outdated, they do not bring our best to the fore, most typically exhibitionists. . .less by DW on December 02 2009, 09:13 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

higher lore The problem with the implementation of justice, ethics and morality (the social contract) is the assumption that all parties will substitute individual or constituent interests for a 'higher law' (one that everyone would choose prior to obtaining . .more 'interests', an ideal that forms the bedrock of equality (whatever that means), fairness, justice and long-term stability ... and contentment?). Not to say that they are the first in a South Africa context, but the ANC is completely flouting these ideals and increasingly along racial lines, making it more and more difficult to distinguish their conduct from the Nationalist governments that they so strongly opposed. It makes a joke of the 'cause' that they claimed to champion. Seems that it is the underdog that appeals most strongly to principle. And makes one wonder how these ideals have ever managed to become enshrined in systems of governance and power. From where stand in South Africa, the path seems to be leading further away, instead of toward, our ideals. It seems so obvious, yet we make it so difficult to achieve. I firmly believe that our modern political systems are outdated, they do not bring our best to the fore, most typically exhibitionists. . .less by DW on December 02 2009, 09:14 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Liars, damned lies, statistics and politicians. Whether one agrees with racial representivity, and the group-think it implies (sister Marshallgrew up in an apartheid society) or not, the racists who propose it always base the statistics on the *total* demographics of the country. Since skin . .more colour is no indicator of ability (pace Manyi & Hlophe) the most equitable yardstick is matric or university results. A more just ratio would be of passes, university exemptions or distinctions in matric. If it takes, say 20 years from passing matric to graduating and building up the skill and reputation required to be a judge then the matric results from 1989 should be the guidline. If that is too apartheid for the ethnic crusaders, cut it to 5 years: use the ratio of blacks with good results matric in 2004. It is significant that the "Nuremberg Laws" advocates NEVER use this more objective and equitable measure: it does not suit their ethnic cleansing goals. The bottom line is that those who scream loudest for AA and have benefited from it (Zuma, Selebi, even Hlophe for a while) do not hestitate to brief the best - white - defence to save their own black skins. . .less by George Janowell on December 02 2009, 09:16 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

In my opinion the blacks will do whatever it takes to get the whites out of SA Thus you have deployment bee and racism against whites. They say it is to level the playing field but lets face it they aint never going to stop till you are all gone. So 80 murders a day, rape on a grand scale, corruption like never before and a . .more crumbling judicial system is something that will only get worse in SA as I see it. Sorry whites you better leave now. . .less by Bath on December 02 2009, 09:16 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@JVR I came here by mistake but anyway let me quickly add my input before I leave to do something else. The current problems and imminent ones are to be blamed to us all. The writer has taken some issues too seriously like those who have taken our . .more revolutionary rhetoric seriously. But these people have not only taken our revolutionary rhetoric seriously but have actually internalised it to such an extent that it has become their new source of prejudice against us, the people who are trying to bring the government to order for the benefit of everyone particularly the investors and business people who are here to provide job opportunities for us all so that we can have jobs. Clearly these other people are not afraid of the kind of environment they are creating which will turn out to be destructive to us and again clearly wrong people are becoming victims. I am calling upon the most intelligent person to use his wisdom to bring the situation to normality. Mr van der merwa is incensed. . .less by King Zwakala on December 02 2009, 09:25 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

higher lore The problem with the implementation of justice, ethics and morality (the social contract) is the assumption that all parties will substitute individual or constituent interests for a 'higher law' (one that everyone would choose prior to obtaining . .more 'interests', an ideal that forms the bedrock of equality (whatever that means), fairness, justice and long-term stability ... and contentment?). Not to say that they are the first in a South Africa context, but the ANC is completely flouting these ideals and increasingly along racial lines, making it more and more difficult to distinguish their conduct from the Nationalist governments that they so strongly opposed. It makes a joke of the 'cause' that they claimed to champion. Seems that it is the underdog that appeals most strongly to principle. And makes one wonder how these ideals have ever managed to become enshrined in systems of governance and power. From where stand in South Africa, the path seems to be leading further away, instead of toward, our ideals. It seems so obvious, yet we make it so difficult to achieve. I firmly believe that our modern political systems are outdated, they do not bring our best to the fore, most typically exhibitionists. . .less by DW on December 02 2009, 09:27 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

What do current abuses imply for the future? I agree with Koos (above) that we should concern ourselves with real evil defined by values such as justice, morality and equity, as espoused in James Myburgh's article. Why is JVR still fighting in the Boer War instead? The . .more currently ruling racists hate venerated liberals like the late Helen Suzman even more than JVR does. Does JVR really want to be in their camp, with a time lag of an entire century? . .less by Siegfried Hannig on December 02 2009, 09:34 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

An example please Can any of those concerned about the darker colour of the bench give a single example of a bad judgment from a black judge? Justice in the west has become so technical and complicated and so obsessed with the rights of the accused that . .more villains like OJ Simpson can get away with murder. I wonder if we should set either the US or the UK up as a good example. There is a case for greater simplicity in law. . .less by Newton on December 02 2009, 10:31 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

James you are horribly wrong yourself The impression that is given by Mr Myburgh is that White advocates are being denied their rightful place on the bench. He insinuates that just because those White advocates are in majority therefore they are being sidlined. He is also at pains to create a . .more picture of them being more suited to being judges by virtue of their skin colour. James has committed the same mistake that he claims the ANC is guilty of but like a true hypocrite he doesn't see this. It is quite funny that this concerns him so much. We all know that the new apartheid proponents in the form of the DA had hoped to use the judiciary to oppose anything and everything that the ANC does but with the make up of the bench being changed gradually to reflect the demographics of this country, they are increasingly becoming frustrated. Look at hom the DA wants to use the Pretoria Bar to stop Simelane's appointment - is this not an abuse of the resources or institutions of democracy? of course it is but the DA, James and many of their ilk won't see this because any action that will further liberate the Black nation is a taboo for them. These people are racist and you only to read the comments they post on this site. Fortunately, the Whiteman will never ever rule in this country for as long as we are alive. All they will ever be is to be the opposition (a toothless one) . .less by Mr holier than thou on December 02 2009, 10:37 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@paralegal So I take it you think the state of our judiciary is just peachy? It's a complete farce. by Leaving on December 02 2009, 11:13 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Newton If you want examples, try reading the whole article. In the second last paragraph, you will find a link to "raised concerns". You just might find one or two ideas there. by Wiseman on December 02 2009, 11:42 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Paralegal You are right - just because they don't say what he wants to hear doesn't make them wrong. If you actually read the article though, you'd see that the author pretty well explains why and how they are wrong. by Wiseman on December 02 2009, 11:43 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Excellent aticle, James The real issue is that the west has been brainwashed by the MSM (main stream media). This unremitting onslaught over sixty years has demonized white South Africans. Its always been Hitler versus the Cosby kids. Anything white South africans did was bad. . .more Blacks were always the victims of white racism. And so the tune plays on. AA, BEE is for "redress". A friend of mine came back to SA with his wife who was Swedish. This was in 1994. She wanted to explore the country and I advised her against going to places like the Transkei. "Why?" she asked " Is it a Afrikaner Boer stronghold?". After that I decided she should go where she deemed fit. . .less by Lord max master of infinity on December 02 2009, 12:43 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

liberal Don't expect too much from the west, they have succeeded in brainwashing themselves with all this liberal bs. America has just voted in their first communist president and the british feel like foreigners in their own once great country. by Silver Surfer on December 02 2009, 14:00 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@the fools I can tell that some of you didn't bother actually to read the article, or you're just wilfully ignoring the quotes from those involved in the legal system who've pointed out that the blind adherence to racial profiling is leading to a serious breakdown . .more in the South African judiciary. @Mr holier than thou - can you point out where it's claimed that whites are better suited to being judges? Please don't waste your time if all you're going to is spout more of your racist rhetoric. . .less by CTheB on December 02 2009, 14:22 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Siegfried, Koos and others. I refuse to be brow-beaten by you, or by anyone else for that matter, into a state of colonial guilt. And unlike the vast majority of White SAcans, I did not lose my brain in 1994. It is still here, functioning. Nor did I imagine the activism . .more by Helen Suzman, Trevor Huddleston, Madam Gordimer in the 1980s to enable the ANC. Siegfried - I mention the Boer War *because* South Africa was formed on the ashes of the Boer republics, literally. You cannot separate South Africa and the Boer War. And no, I am not still fighting it, but I note that the psychology that drove the Anglo Left (Madam Suzman, the Black Sash, Huddleston, etc) was rooted in the anti-Boer legacy which the Colonial British brought to SA as long ago as under Lord Somerset. It never died, and the Anglo Left never stopped fighting the Boer War. In fact, they are still fighting it today, and will not stop until Afrikaans and Afrikaners have been driven into extinction. I assure you that in 1000 years, SA from 1800-2000 will be understood as a long dispute between Anglos and Boers. You cannot analyze it any other way. Luke Watson comes honestly by his attitude. Now the old SA was a deeply unfair state for blacks, but it was getting better, every year. And it would have democratized by a better route, if left alone. It could not otherwise. . .less by JVR on December 02 2009, 17:13 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Too much credit James you are giving our expat Judge too much credit. She sounds just plain patronising to me. by SC on December 02 2009, 18:49 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

JVR and Mr holier than thou Mr Holier than thou and JVR should get married. Don't worry JVR it's perfectly legal now even if Mr HTT is black and gay. There you are, that's one freedom your good ole boys in the NP never gave you. See how lucky you are to live under the ANC. . .more "Free at last, free at last!" "Anglo left"? What on earth are you talking about my good man? Helen Suzman never was a "left winger". Just because one was anti-NP doesn't mean one was anti-Afrikaner. I know plenty of Afrikaners who were genuinely anti-NP. They were reviled by the Nazi (oops, sorry)National Party Afrikaners . .less by Jeff on December 02 2009, 20:05 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Newton You ask : "An example please Can any of those concerned about the darker colour of the bench give a single example of a bad judgment from a black judge?" Bad High Court judgements get sorted out by the Supreme Court of Appeals, and . .more in Myburgh's article he writes : "In October 2006 Judge Azhar Cachalia warned that the JSC that it had "made mistakes" in its approach to appointments, and "those chickens are now coming home to roost." As an acting judge on the Supreme Court of Appeal he had had to deal with appeals against "shocking" high court judgments that contained the "kind of mistakes that should not be tolerated." (Cape Times October 16 2006)" That's from the horse's mouth! Good enough for you? A very good litigation lawyer I know confirms this experience; and is grateful we still have a good SCA. But pity the unsuccessful High Court litigants who have to bear the cost of unqualified black High Court judges' "shocking" judgments through having to take judgments on appeal. I must add that the current Minister of Justice is the most incompetent and worst we've ever had! . .less by flebus on December 02 2009, 21:09 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

The Nazi-smear is tiresome Jeff... Jeff, you are so smart you make my point. Thanks for that. "Free at last" is the phrase by Martin Luther King. As far as I know, that had nothing to do with South Africa. And the Nazi-smear is typical from the Anglo Left. As . .more I said, the white Anglo Cabal (including your) are still fighting the Boer war. And I assure you, Madam Suzman had nothing by contempt for Afrikaners (not just for Nats), and she was greatly influenced by the Western Hard Left, her natural allies. . .less by JVR on December 02 2009, 22:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@JvR (Jan van Riebeeck) You are living in a time warp. I am an Afrikaner and I don't feel guilty about the past. You are stuck like an old LP wchich scrathes trying to annoy people. Forget the past and look what is happening now and do something about it. At the same time grow . .more up because you don't have the faintest idea what you are talking about. . .less by Koos on December 03 2009, 11:32 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Koos Koos - d.os - gaan voer die hoenders. Dan doen jy iets die moeite werd ou seun. by phil on December 03 2009, 12:38 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

more black judicial personel I, do not understand when you say the appointment of black judicial personnel has an impact on skills and intergrity .We know that the South African jusctice system during appartheird knew nothing about intergrity,skils,values,it was an extension of an . .more evil system and a majority of those judicial personel who applied those laws without questioning they know have intergrity compared to those who fougth against the evil system.shame on you and yourilk. . .less by mandla on December 03 2009, 15:44 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Werfetter As jy van hoenders praat ou Phil/JvR dan kan ek sien watter soort rockspider jy is. Miskien moet jy maar by ou ET se manne gaan aan sluit. Klink vir my of jy dink ek het saam met jou albaster gespeel. by Koos on December 03 2009, 17:28 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Koos nee, jy het my albasters gesteel - dis hoekom et se perd gegly het!! Die hoenders wag op kos>>>>>>>>>>>>> by JVR on December 04 2009, 09:42 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@koos Koos - gaan vloek jou vrou - nie vir my nie. by phil on December 05 2009, 09:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

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