The Afrikaners: Sixteen questions

A second, expanded edition of Hermann Giliomee's The Afrikaners: Biography of a People has just appeared (see here). There is a long new chapter describing the story of the often fraught relations between the Afrikaners and the ANC since the 1987 conference in Dakar, Senegal, to the present day. The following are Giliomee's answers to a series of questions on the book:

1. Why a second edition with the first one having appeared as recently as 2003?

The book sold remarkably well (25,000 in both the English and Afrikaans editions) and it was out of print at the beginning of the year after having gone through six reprints. To reprint it again would not make much sense. Simply too much has happened in the last ten years. A substantial new chapter was needed to take developments up to the present time.

2. Does it often happen that a history book gets a second edition so soon?

Not really, but it is South Africa's fate to have too much history and too much politics, particularly for a country with a relatively small population (only six million a century ago). Over the past ten years too much has happened and the public mood has changed drastically. It is almost similar to what happened in the four years before the Great Trek (1832 -1836), the four years between the Jameson Raid and the Anglo Boer War (1895-1899), the five years between the Depression and Fusion (1929 -1934), the five years after becoming a republic (1961-1966), and the nine  years after P.W. Botha's Rubicon speech in 1985.

3. How do people react in such times?

It almost as if politics becomes overwhelming; people begin to feel and think differently. If the politics goes wrong, as is happening now - with the ruling elite unable or unwilling to stamp out corruption, crime and unemployment - people become angry. If things go exceptionally well, as in the first half of the 1960s, or the years of the Mandela presidency, people become euphoric and politically irresponsible. In such a period, it is as if the country is shooting the rapids. This is what we have experienced in our politics since Robert Mugabe showed how far a liberation movement was prepared to go, and how he was allowed to proceed unchallenged by our government, which had the capacity to intervene.

4. How does it change people's conception of history and politics?

People are strongly inclined to see the past in the light of the present. Take for instance the Dakar conference of 1987 between a group of Afrikaners and other "inziles" and a delegation of the ANC in exile under the leadership of Thabo Mbeki. At the time, people thought it was an exceptionally brave deed that could pave the way to a true democracy. Now the view is that they were conned by the ANC. Reading the transcript of the debates that has become available, it is clear that the inziles ignored the signs. That includes me - I was there. Another participant was the journalist Chris Louw, who died tragically the other day. He became very disillusioned about Dakar.

5. Aren't big issues, such as interpretations of the constitutional settlement, not the same?

No, they too are influenced radically. At first, the settlement was seen almost as a miracle. But over the past decade it has become clear that the major issues were not resolved.  The two main parties differed radically about what was meant by good faith negotiations. The NP saw the end product as a firm social contract, while the ANC saw the drafting of a constitution as part of an ongoing revolutionary process in which nothing, not even property rights, was really fixed. Transformation trumped all. In 2007, both F.W. de Klerk and Pik Botha said they would not have signed the constitution if they had known what the ANC meant with transformation and "representivity". In the new chapter, I quote the private exchange of long letters between Pik Botha and Thabo Mbeki that was made available to me.

6. How did the different minority groups respond in that last decade to the ANC's domination?

In the case of both the Jews and the Afrikaners there are constant attempts by elites to mend fences with government. The implicit argument is that interracial and interethnic peace is quite fragile and needs regular gestures and expressions of goodwill by white communities. That strategy plays into the government's hands.

7. What has been the biggest surprise to you in the past decade?

The greatest surprise to me was the disappearance of the Afrikaners as a distinct political force. Also the failure at universities like Pretoria and Stellenbosch to safeguard the future of Afrikaans.  It is particularly surprising that the University of Stellenbosch, which is well suited to become the seat of Afrikaans teaching, writing and debate, has been so prepared to discard a precious cultural heritage. At undergraduate level most classes now are taught in dual medium (English and Afrikaans combined in the same lecture) Worldwide this is acknowledged as the kiss of death - when a national language has to compete against an universal language. Dual medium at US and UP are the biggest threats to Afrikaans as a public language.

8. Why are academics prepared to throw away Afrikaans?

It is an elitist strategy and the easy option.

9. And the other surprise?

The other surprise was the collapse of business leadership. With the exception of Johann Rupert and a few others, very few business leaders have been prepared to criticise government on policy. They rarely criticised government on issues that touched on the daily lives of minorities, such as affirmative action, representivity, crime and language rights. The organisation that did its homework on mobilisation and focused action is the trade union Solidarity under the leadership of Flip Buys. It was the mobilisation of Solidarity, along with AgriSA and the FW de Klerk Foundation that forced the government in 2008 to withdraw the Expropriation Bill. This example of an alliance, of political parties, organizations and institutes combining, will become more and more necessary.

10. If business leaders are prepared to concern themselves in politics only from the anonymity of their offices, why don't they at least sponsor more media ventures, such as the English-Afrikaans magazine you suggest?

I must confess I still don't know how the heads of business leaders in SA work when it comes to social or political issues, except the determination to avoid political risk.

11. What political lessons have minorities learnt in the past decade?

The basic conflict in South Africa is between black people with political power and no real economic power and white people with economic power, but no political power. For minorities to make themselves heard they will have to learn how to organize, mobilise and agitate. As Breyten Breytenbach recently said in Afrikaans, "Opstaan". There are more than enough constitutional opportunities.

12. Breyten is an exile. Is there a role for Afrikaners in exile?

The model of Israel and its diaspora is more and more punted. The Afrikaners lack three things the Jews have: a sense of chosenness, a history of persecution and Israel. But if the language of instruction issue can be resolved something can be built up around Afrikaans schools and universities and especially bursaries to the poorer Afrikaans youths. But that will take organization.

13. Do you sense a new restiveness among Afrikaners?

Yes, definitely. I think there is a suppressed rage and anger over crime and corruption that the government is grossly underestimating.  If the government does something stupid, like agreeing to a closed shop agreement for a single teachers' union there can be trouble.

14. If the present power struggle in the ANC results in a more moderate and efficient government can the Afrikaners  re-negotiate their position in society, or are all three minority groups destined forever to be second-rankers?

There were three coalitions in our history and all were totally unexpected: the SAP and the Unionists in the early 1920's, the SAP and the NP in the early 1930s and the NP and the Afrikaner Party in 1947. With the exception of the first the coalition gave a much needed new base of order and stability.

15. What is the biggest challenge to the Afrikaners?

To be heard, to build effective alliances across racial and ethnic lines and to get government to respond.  Chris Louw wrote in his second last column in Beeld that the government has reduced Afrikaner opinion to six percent - their share of the population. The Afrikaans press is freer than ever and Naspers is the biggest media company in Africa, but the government could not care a whit about what appears in the Afrikaans papers. I don't know what is worse: censorship or being ignored. The government takes notice only when something appears in English, and even then it may ignore it. What the country needs is a way to force government to take account of the diversity of opinion. Perhaps a monthly political journal with excellent articles in both Afrikaans and English.

16. What remains the same?

For Afrikaners, the love of the land and all its people, and for Afrikaans as a language. If one feels despondent, one can always recall the words of Jan Smuts after his party's defeat in the 1948 election. "In South Africa the best - and the worst -never happens.

Hermann Giliomee was professor of Political Studies at the University of Cape Town

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hermann in israel "12. Breyten is an exile. Is there a role for Afrikaners in exile? The model of Israel and its diaspora is more and more punted. The Afrikaners lack three things the Jews have: a sense of chosenness, a history of persecution and Israel. But if . .more the language of instruction issue can be resolved something can be built up around Afrikaans schools and universities and especially bursaries to the poorer Afrikaans youths. But that will take organization." well as far as i know giliomee has one chapter in his book called "demography is destiny" - how many afrikaners are in exile and how many are still in south africa - and how many of them do actually care about being an afrikaner i.e. the afrikaner identity? around 2,5million are in sa? in exile? and on the identity/ethnicity game politics - i think it will be the last nail in the coffin of the afrikaners. but "opstaan" is a good idea - maybe a bit new in a conformist culture . .less by peppie on December 07 2009, 23:06 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

re: pithy Politics does overwhelm and the sense of it for me as a South African citizen is there is no avenue nor vision of a prosperous future, I feel an alienation and an ostracization. Personally, I find no sense of protection from the constitution, so much has . .more been amended, and there's nothing but confusion if I try to find myself within the constitution or within this south African democracy, Find a vacuum where my past once was and when I look towards the future all I see is brick wall in front of another brick wall, miles high into the sky, and as long and wide as the Great Wall of China. As a South African from a mixed linguistic background, I am constantly questioning what it means being a South African, and how do I begin to define myself and protect myself from the definition of those South Africans filled with a foul animus and driven animosity towards me because of my physical hue. . .less by Ekenj on December 07 2009, 23:07 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

don't know how the heads of business leaders in SAwork when it comes to social or political issues, FOCUS - Money - a fast movable asset. SOCIAL - Marketing Sales. POLITICAL - Leverage or EXIT - fast in stealth. One foot in Europe. Known as Capitalism ! by old, female on December 08 2009, 06:49 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Comprehension of South Africa - hindsight 20/20 Brilliant insight of my political addiction since pre-WWII to final betrayal. Trewhela's Vula was a shock. All minorities must unite against a common enemy - Dictatorship-in-process ! STAAN SAAM ! by old, female on December 08 2009, 06:56 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

The Afrikaner will stand up to the benefit of everyone by Afrikaner on December 08 2009, 06:56 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Businessmen at auction for broke ANC fund raising " President Jacob Zuma, who promised businessmen that they would be making a wise investment by pledging money to the ANC." I kid you not - see IOL news by mv2997 on December 08 2009, 07:30 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Afrikaners is their own worst enemy Interesting article. In question 12 you touch a point that has been bugging me about Afrikaners. Been not from RSA, I can few their position from neutral viewpoint. Afrikaners is their own worst enemy. They do not stand together in what they believe in. . .more They became arrogant; the worst is an Afrikaner who thinks he got money and status. The me factor took over; arrogance is at the order of the day. I am better than you because I drive a BMW... In my business I have met a lot of Jews that is incredible rich, but they still are very humble. Casing point Oppenheimer...If you do not believe just drive past the eastern suburbs of Pretoria...Afrikaners wake up you are destroying yourself with arrogance and nepotism. . .less by Me on December 08 2009, 07:34 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

JvR Where are you this morning? Or does the abover article hurt too much for your troubled soul? Jou volk het verdwyn soos die mis in die more son. Hulle fut is uit! by Koos on December 08 2009, 08:02 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

The Afrikaner was unique The Afrikaner was and is not a colonist - never sponsored by a mother country. He always had to fought for himselve. He is the only group that build a up his own language - not even the Americans can say that. The Afrikaner was the only group who . .more succeeded to make a piece of Africa a first world country. He build a system that could stand the sanctions worse than what Zim had. The system was so strong that it could stand 10 years of growth after the take-over of the ANC. The Afrikaner is rich in culture, history and religion - Christianity. But all this was destroyed. What the Afrikaner can offer this country is more than any other group in or outside SA can. But no-one in the world will admit it. It will ratehr be destroyed under the title of "freedom". The African freedom is a mirage that will disappear as the Afrikaner is busy dissappearing.... . .less by Silverlea on December 08 2009, 08:03 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

16 questions article The Afrikaners will stand up, if the black government thinks they are the only ones who could revolt, they have a second think coming and its not going to take for ever,we are, to put it nicely in our language "GATVOL". Corruption, crime and . .more the filth and pollution that we see and experience around us, the degradation of our once beautiful and clean country. We are GATVOL that our language is being trodden on like so much dirt. Be assured the Afrikaners WILL rise up. The black government will not fight our fight for us, we have to do it ourselves if we want to survive in this country and we will. Black people like to talk about Ubuntu, but they have no clue of the real meaning. . .less by Afrikaner 2 on December 08 2009, 08:03 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Has anyone tried to buy this book its nearly impossible to get hold of? by Buyer on December 08 2009, 08:29 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Die Afrikaner en die duiwel "Die duiwel het die Afrikaner probeer breek deur die Anglo Boere oorloë met sy konsentrasie kampe, die bewind van die Engelse en die Groot Depressie, maar hy kon nie. Hy het toe besluit hy sal dit met hulle laat GOED gaan en gee toe vir hulle 1948 en 'n . .more Apartheid, dit het hulle gebreek, geld en mag. 'n Klein nasie wat jaloers geraak het op mekaar." Gelukkig is 'n einde daaraan gemaak en sal hulle nou weer bymekaar staan en opbou wat afgebreek is . .less by Jan van Riebeeck on December 08 2009, 08:59 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Forget the Afrikaners -- our "liberators" are raping even their black compagtriots and the rule of l... While the experience of the Afrikaner is very interesting, Giliomee's myopic perspective appears almost ludicrous in the light of the unspeakable menace these purported "liberators" have proved to be even to the black "voting cattle". . .more Ironically the "black majority" keeps re-electing its black oppressors to fulfil the self-destruction of this last outpost of African civilisation -- in vindication of the fears that spawned Apartheid and UDI. . .less by Siegfried Hannig on December 08 2009, 09:04 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

What nobody is noticing ... is that the ANC is currently at the peak of its power like the NP was in the late 1980s. All the signs are there that the ANC as a liberation movement has served its purpose, but cannot deliver as a political party to rule properly. It's not only . .more Afrikaners who are "gatvol". The next elections might see a coalition government taking power. Time is fast running out for the ANC. The more corrupt they are and the more politicians fill their own pockets with the taxpayer's money, the faster their power will disappear. . .less by Voelvry on December 08 2009, 09:25 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

afrikaner ons is die boere! this is just so funny!!!!!!! by jabu on December 08 2009, 09:36 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

to Reggy on hate speech Just remember, please, that had whites not come to this country, you would be sitting in the veldt looking after 3 cattle and 5 goats. No water in pipes, no electricity, no cars, no vehicles at all, no roads, no dams, no books, no knowledge of any kind . .more about the rest of the world, no telephones, no doctors, no hospitals, no schools, no suits, no shoes, no boats, no aeroplanes... . .less by John Logan on December 08 2009, 11:36 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Their own worst enemy Whilst the Anglo-Boer war and events post 1994 fully justify the simmering rage the average Afrikaaner harbours, it is also alienating him from the very hand that can feed him :- viz, the english speaking and/ or bilingual white South Africans. If one . .more addresses a full-blown Afrikaaner in either english or in perfect afrikaans but with a slight accent, one is immediately recorded forever as :- "daai f@kken rooinek". This in turn leads to the justifyable response:-" That dumb Dutchman".-game over,- common enemy watches this and laughs gleefully. I was privileged to have family members as members of parliament in both the United Party and the Nats and was privy to their true beliefs and aims; some of which were:- mainainence of morals, law and order,appropriate governance i.r.o.racial abilities and levels of intelligence ;- but most importantly;- instilling a feeling of national pride and cameraderie. This made us a world leading power by 94. The rest is history. We have been divided and ruled. . .less by Voortrekker on December 08 2009, 11:48 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

2015 Contrary to the woefully naive assertions of some of the black commentatots on this forum, the bulk of Afrikaners and indeed the white, asian and afrikaans speaking "coloured" populations simply do not have the option of retreating to europe or Oz or . .more elsewhere. Thus a highly marginalised minority of approximately 7-10 million are positioned against an increasingly corrupt black leadership, far more fractious than most "commentators" admit. The forst signs of dissent are starting. Wait for 2011 for the ante to up considerably with tax boycotss and massive litigation against various speheres of governemnt. 2015 first outbreak of civil insurrection. Massive bloodshed on both sides (all 5 of them) to follow with the ANC consigned to the dungheap of history, its international credibility and even its African support wasted and unable to assist it in the confrontation with an Afrikaner-led insurrection. No winners in the end. . .less by Oracle on December 08 2009, 11:55 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Prof Giliomee's background as a Broederbonder Prof Giliomee was one of those Broederbonders who during apartheid twisted the Afrikaner and Boer history into such tight little knots that many simply didn't know their own history any more. And it seems he's still doing it today. I personally feel that . .more he is discredited as a historian because of his willful manipulation of facts in the text-books of Afrikaner and Boer history which he produced for the schools in those years. I just can't take him seriously, sorry. . .less by Adriana Stuijt on December 08 2009, 11:56 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Afrikaners are cattle If you weren't so self absorbed you would have noticed that you didn't do everything yourselves and that the wonderful place that you built with the labour of slaves for your enjoyment has been taken away from you because you weren't sharing on the . .more playground. Sharing is caring' remember? As for the rebellion, yeah sure. Every rebellion including the 'Bop' one was a complete fiasco. and just in case you haven't noticed, fighting a guerrilla war as whiteys against darkies in Africa is going to go down as one of the fastest wars in history. Stop your arrogance and maybe the other kids will play with you. They don't have to though. . .less by and Zen... on December 08 2009, 12:52 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

16 x Q The Afrikaners dont know where they come from, are easily manipulated and as a whole, know that they wil be assimilated. It is an idealised entity created for use as a powerbase in business and politics in order to rape and pillage SA. by RandomNumberZero on December 08 2009, 13:41 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Afrikanerdom is still self-obsessed First they have to get used to the fact that they can no longer rely on the State to maintain dominance Secondly, a useful thriving community does not need to exclude others to survive. Stellenbosch believes in Afrikaans and Afrikaaners as a vialble . .more community that does not to be protected from the world. Their decision is laudable as a university adjusting to a post-apartheid society. . .less by Thabo Monare on December 08 2009, 13:47 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ and zen You might want to do a spot of reading,- especially South African history. I presume you are fairly young, in-exerienced and possibly were taught the 'new p.c. version of our history', which makes good novel reading but has absolutely no bearing on the . .more truth. One thinks of Blood River, the so-called k^ffir-wars and of Angola and the general maintainance of law and order in S.A over the years despite the antics of the toy-toying terrorists.-one thing the Afrikaner can do is fight, especially with noisy, cheeky darkies. The only reason darkies were allowed out to play was the pressure and protection afforded by Britain and U.S.A. who in turn didn't give a flying duck about "freedom",- they just wanted to grab the huge mineral resources which belonged to the discoverers,--the white South Africans. The Afrikaners aren't going to go away, so be scared, be very scared. . .less by Voortrekker on December 08 2009, 14:05 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ and Zen You clearly believe that there will be a united African response to a mixed race rebellion?! You also clearly put a lot of faith in the aids-infested, ageing, fat "liberation heroes" masquerading as soldiers and policemen. Well time will tell old boy, but . .more given the history of outnumbered voortrekkers facing odds of 100 to 1, i would be a little more humble if I were you. War is an unlikely scenario but even the most stoic of observer will note the change in attitude to the new regime over the past 2 years. . .less by Oracle on December 08 2009, 14:28 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Realisation We need each other. I quote again:"It doesn't matter if you shoot a Zebra in the white meat or the black meat...it will surely die." SA is at the cutting edge of diversification. No country in the world have come as far as us regarding transformation, but . .more will surely be faced with the same challenges down the line. The world will look to us for guidance, so we have to succeed. We must all admit the fact that the Afrikaners built the SA economy to be the powerhouse of Africa, but could not have done it without the Blacks. What then makes the Blacks think (not all of them) they can do it without the Afrikaners. Both groups have equal vested interests, and the sustainability of one depends on the other.... . .less by Johnny V on December 08 2009, 14:29 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ voortrekker Oh boy, and here I was thinking that we'd all learnt a touch of humility especially the mighty afrikaner. Blood River reminds me of the joke of never taking a knife to a gun fight. Bullets vs spears, wonderfully brave Mr Voortrekker. The so-called K^ffir . .more wars were also very one sided, and as for Angola, give me a break. You have conveniently forgotten the many body bags flossied back to the states and the fact that many of those were not mighty afrikaners. The Angolan war was lost. Check it out. Of course the afrikaners are not going to go away, but scared, puhleeez nobody is of your threats but more likely of your arrogance and ignorance. Wow all these centuries and you still haven't learnt from the klaps. Amazing. . .less by and Zen... on December 08 2009, 14:50 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

No Christianity The one thing that the Afrikaner will be better off without is Christianity. It doesn't serve anybody, especially not a democracy! One doesn't have to buy into the Bible with all it's rules, regulations and many interpretations in order to have God in . .more your life. God was around a S*** long time before Christianity was created to controll the masses, including the Afrikaners! . .less by Ruan on December 08 2009, 15:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ and Zen and Thabo Monare Your ignorence places you at a disadvantage. I won't be surprised if you two are still "struggling" even with BEE and AA and EE supporting your efforts. One should never underestimate the power of the human spirit. Get a mans back up against a wall and . .more you will have trouble-black, white, pink, yellow or green it doesn't matter what race or colour they are. Your comments are making those who are already prejudice stick to their guns.Wake up, you are not special, just like everyone else. . .less by Johnny V on December 08 2009, 16:35 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Adriana Stuijt: Giliomee no Broederbonder! Adriana Stuijt allegation that Giliomee was a Broederbonder is so far-fetched as her allegations that Giliomee wrote school history books. Just check Ivor Wilkins and Hans Strydom's list of Broeders in "The Super-Afriknaers". You won't find Giliomee's . .more name there. . .less by Voelvry on December 08 2009, 16:51 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Here's a thought.. 'Perhaps a monthly political journal with excellent articles in both Afrikaans and English.' What about in Xhosa, Sotho and Zulu as well?! You would reach a larger audience and scare the un-democratic pants off the left! by JWise on December 08 2009, 17:12 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

the white/black, Afrikaners vs the rest "onding" There is no future in appealing to "Afrikaners" to unite. The essential dichotomy is between Black Nationalist racists and South Africans who realise that racism, and latterly especially Black racism, is the road to the ruin of us all. The . .more current crop of powerful black nationalists spawned and given teeth by the Mbeki government, and subsequently given horns by the Zuma/Cosatu/SACP faction, if left unchecked, will bankrupt SA and leave behind a useless ruin along the lines of Zambia and other impoverished African states. I doubt we'll go the Zimbabwe route unless very significant numbers of skilled people continue to leave very soon. In any event, the fight that matters is between those who believe in an equal- opportunity constitutional democracy, and those who believe in racist majoritarian privilege entrenched in racist laws and practices through subversion of the constitution. The ANC now stands for the latter, and the DA for the former. It is frightfully stupid to project/promote the Afrikaners as the prime movers in this struggle, such ethnic labels are too devisive to be of good use. We need a better label for those who will be the real civilised and civilising liberators to take on the debauched ANC. . .less by mpho on December 08 2009, 17:21 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Too late Koos... I have made peace with the disappearance of the Afrikaners; more than a decade ago and in fact I have already moved on. I grieved for my people, and I have accepted the world without us. Even then I did not loose my brain, unlike the vast . .more majority of Afrikaner commentators. Above are comments that Afrikaners were a "conformist culture", and I have to agree. But this was caused by the brow-beating dealt out to any Afrikaner who dared speak out. Say anything negative about the ANC, and NasPers and her tame Afrikaner columnists will come down like a ton of bricks on you - this has been going on since 1990. I can point out the very individuals who went out of their way disciplining Afrikaners who dared speak out about the ANC's excesses, about farm murders, or who pointed out the White Left's complicity with the ANC in planning the destruction of Afrikaners. Thabo Mbeki's "National Question" about whites in SA is now pertinent. There are only a few options left over, because so much time was wasted in the 1990s trying the keep the ANC happy: (1) Emigration, (2) Withdrawal into the modern version of laagers, (3) Push back hard. (3) is a difficult option since the ANC does not have to listen anymore. (1) the next million will leave in 10 years. (2) the last of option of those remaining behind - that or death. . .less by JVR on December 08 2009, 17:47 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Adriane Stuijt Adriane Stuijt calls me a Broederbonder and author of history textbooks. I was neither of the two. She obviously confuses me with an another historian with an Afrikaans surname. Perhaps she thinks all historians with an Afrikaans surname look, think and . .more smell the same. . .less by Hermann Giliomee on December 08 2009, 18:09 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@JvR/Jan van Riebeeck Your 3rd option is the one to do, don't leave push back even harder. Join the club which is fighting all bad politicians, we had them in the National Party and now we have them in the ANC. The thing to do is always fight against regimes and politicians . .more because mostly they are bad. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely! This is what the white left was fighting for not like the right wingers who was fighting to keep a bad regime in place. . .less by Koos on December 08 2009, 21:51 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

JvR/Jan van Riebeeck Ons het nog n kans man! Bid en hoop en werk daaraan dat daar n groter split in die ANC geledere sal ontstaan as die wegbreek van COPE. Indien dit gebeur dan het ons n ware demokrasie in ons land. Dan sal daar deur een van die twee groot partye n koalisie . .more met die DA gevorm moet word. Dink n bietjie wat beteken dit. Geen wette waarvan ons nie hou nie sal nie deur die parlement gewettig kan word nie. Slegs wette waarmee ons saam stem sal gewettig word. Ons sal n nuwe en beter Suid-Afrika vir almal kan skep. Vergeet van die verlede en veg vir die toekoms deur te kyk wat vandag gebeur. . .less by Koos on December 08 2009, 22:05 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Comprehendo? Koos? Koos, do you understand that even if your best hope realises (and you base that on the unlikely event that the ANC will be defeated and accept defeat), that SA will still be an SA without Afrikaners/Boers as I (and even you) used to understand those . .more concepts? Then there is your second issue: The believe that "we" (us former Afrikaners) can somehow save SA. I do not think we have the capacity to do that. Afrikaners are so incapable that they cannot even secure a single school or Afrikaans institution. We cannot even save ourselves, nevermind saving a dysfunctional state from a vastly numerically superior and malevolent ANC. In fact, I do not even think it is our duty to save SA (or Xhosas, or Zulus or White Anglos) from the ANC -- and perhaps the right (ethical) way forward is to find a *moral way* forward to unwind the "Cape Dutch" project in SA. Some Afrikaners will persist in self-exclusion for quite a time to come (on the margins), but the Afrikaans fact in SA was crushed by the White Left's distaste for Afrikaners. Who knows, perhaps Afrikaans will, as it did in Argentina, persist in SA, Oz or NZ for a century on the margins before it finally kicks the bucket. However, people will forever eat Wors. And that may be our most significant legacy. . .less by JVR on December 09 2009, 00:28 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@JvR Nee, man jy klink soos n hensopper m.a.w. gee oor. Jou ander opsies is sterf of vlug. Ek se nie dit is die Afrikaner wat die land weer sal regeer nie, wat ek se is: Indien ons (swart, bruin, indier, engels en afrikaans) saam staan teen n slegte regering . .more dan kan ons die huidige toestand hier verbeter. Indien nie dan sal die ANC vir nog baie lank regeer. Dit is die enigste rede om hier te bly en daar is geen ander nie. Om jouself oor die verlede te verknies is nie die moeite werd nie, deesdae steur mense hulself nie aan wat die "white left" gedoen of nie gedoen het nie. Ook die 1992 referundum is nie meer ter sake nie. Dit dien slegs n doel as geskiedenis vir Herman se boek. I.v.m. die Afrikaner of die "volk" sal voortbestaan is n ander storie. Miskien is ons almal eintlik net wereldburgers. . .less by Koos on December 09 2009, 08:27 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Nice one Koos... Every different group can survive in their independence but they have to be and fit into the whole. Only as a single voting unit can we have any say over our destiny. Things will be very different in the future when the old ballies are gone. Hopefully the . .more laaitjies won't make the same mistakes we made. . .less by and Zen... on December 09 2009, 09:47 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Afrikaaners are a nuisance South Africa is very accomodating, but I think this boere are abusing the goodwill of the rest of other groupings in South Africa. Why do they feel they are so special that their language should be protected and used as a medium of instructions in higher . .more institutions of learning? Afrikaans is not special at all, english should the medium for all higher institutions of learning. . .less by K Mabuyakulu on December 09 2009, 13:52 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Hating yourself, Koos... No Koos, not a hensopper, but a realist. You (Koos and all the others who have given up on Afrikaners and are world citizens) cannot save South Africa, not even when you join hands with and disappear into a English-speaking Creole nation. Not . .more even then. As I said, Afrikaners cannot even organize to the point of maintaining a single institution to stabilize their culture and language, and then people like you want to march ahead to save ALL of the other South Africans (who by the way, as K Mabuyakuklu proves again above, detest your very existence). Now I wonder, why do you have this urge to save other SAcans, except of course, yourself (your own language, culture, traditions)? Do you really hate yourself that much? (Do not worry, you have loads of company at least on this notice board in that respect). But take it from me. Neither you, nor Helen Zille (whose history in the Black Sash is one of enabling the ANC in the 1980s and working to deliver SAcans into their power), can save South Africa from the ANC. The Black Sash, in case you forgot, had a history of anti-Afrikaner agitation (and in the end people like you joined up with them, hating yourselves). . .less by JVR on December 09 2009, 17:19 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Oorlewing Ons sal oorlef.Die meeste mense se oe is besig om oop te gaan.En hulle sien Presies wat die ANC is.En hulle besef dat die NP het hulle uitverkoop. Hulle is gatvol vir hierdie gemors. Ek eis dat ons Boere grond aan ons terug gegee . .more word.Sodat ons die gemors hier kan agterlaat sodat hulle kan versuip in hulle eie riool. . .less by alkie on December 10 2009, 06:43 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

choice Luckily when you are white and your home language is afrikaans you can self decide whether you want to be an afrikaner or an south african in this country. by vurkie on December 10 2009, 21:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

what are u trying to saY john logan? The fact remains,you dont have a right to S*** on others bcoz you think you deserve better.Am not looking after cattles so try other reasonable examples. by reggy on December 11 2009, 13:17 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Wel gedaan Koos !! Koos, jy praat soos n regte Suid Afrikaner moet :) JvR - Jy praat asof ons nog in die verlede lewe. Daar is nie faksies van wit, swart, bruin, Indiers, ens nie. Ons is almal Suid Afrikaners wie n verskil wil en sal maak. As jy wel so . .more pessimisties / realisties is oor SA, is dit miskien nie n slegte idee om jou tassies te pak en te immigreer nie. As Suid Afrikaners moet ons n postiewe houding behou, anders het ons al lankal verloor. . .less by Domsie on December 11 2009, 15:45 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Die Boere was stupid Die Groot Trek was onsinnig en het gelei tot hierdie gemors. Suid Afrika se grense moes van Tafelberg tot die Visrivier, suid van die Oranjerivier tot Oranjemund gestrek het. Die bevolking moes net die inwoners van die Kaap, die Khoi en San gewees het . .more (sonder apartheid) en etniese Afrikavolke sou onafhanklik in eie gebiede bly voortbestaan het. Nou bly daar net samewerking oor - nie konflik of n "Israel" tuisland nie. Die swartes sal nooit gebied afstaan vir 'n volkstaat nie. Vergeet van Den Haag. Eugene Terreblanche is magsmal. Hy moet tot stilte gedwing word, want hy laat die Afrikaner soos 'n maplotter lyk. Gematigde swartes en gematigde blankes, rasionele mense met visie, sal die kern van 'n nuwe suksesvolle Suid Afrika vorm. Die swart jeug loop nie met velle, skilde en assegaaie nie. Hulle het rekenaars en selfone en sal nie die ou kultuur aanhang soos huidige leiers nie. Ons hoop berus op die sofistikering en emansipering van hulle wat nog nie gemoderniseer het in denke en benadering nie. Dan sal die land vooruitgaan en mense bemagtig word. Jy kan 'nie 'n arm man ryk maak deur 'n ryk man arm te maak nie. . .less by barend on December 12 2009, 18:26 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Re: To Reggy on hate speech by John Logan I dont know what Reggy might have said, but the believe that it is as a result of the whites' presence that there are things such as electricity and so on, as you mentioned, that would have not existed, is unfortunate. Stay with that believe while . .more we and other wise white people learn to bring developments in the world. Gone are the days where race matters. I will still be kind to give you change at the robots upon your request. I will still recommend that your brothers and sisters get RDP houses. It surprises that people who claim so many things are still primitive. But we know that an empty tin makes a loud noice. Slowly but surely, brother, all will be fine. . .less by Bonane on January 05 2010, 21:00 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

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