Why Malema's a problem for Zuma

JOHANNESBURG - In his recent reply to the debate on his state of the nation address President Jacob Zuma defended the right of Julius Malema to raise the issue of nationalisation. While making clear that this was not a policy of his government, he said he was not going to haul the ANCYL president into line.

He told the national assembly: "What members should do in an open democratic society is that if the president of the youth league, Julius Malema, raises an issue of nationalisation, they must raise their counterargument to him if they want to a debate on this. This must be done instead of saying to the government that they must stop him and make him keep quiet."

It is not difficult to rehearse the arguments as to why ‘nationalisation' would not be a particularly good thing for this country. There are no end of examples from the rest of Africa as to what the consequences are likely to be.

For example in 1973 Mobutu Sese Seko set about "returning" the wealth of Zaire "to the people", as Malema would like to do here, through a programme of "Zaireanisation." Michela Wrong writes that he decreed "that foreign-owned farms, plantations, commercial enterprises - mostly in the hands of Portuguese, Greek, Italian and Pakistani traders - should be turned over ‘to sons of the country'. This was followed by radicalisation, in which the largely Belgian-controlled industrial sector was confiscated."

"In theory, departing foreigners were to be compensated and the performance of new owners would be carefully monitored. In practice... no guidelines were drawn up to specify who got what. The result was an obscene scramble for freebies by the burgeoning Zairean elite. Thousands of businesses, totalling around $1 billion in value, were divided among top officials in the most comprehensive nationalisation seen in Africa."

"As expatriate managers headed for the airports, the new owners pocketed savings, sold herds, dumped equipment on local markets and ripped up bushes. The proceeds were spent on luxury items, with imports of Mercedes-Benz hitting an African record one year after Zaireanisation. Ordinary Zaireans, supposed beneficiaries of the process, watched in shock as businesses closed, prices rose, jobs were doled out by new bosses on purely nepotistic lines, and shelves emptied."

The Zairean economy had been doing quite well up until 1974, Wrong notes. But after Zaireanisation it went into a long and unstoppable decline. Efforts by the Mobutu regime to attract investors back to the country were futile. "Those who had put their faith in Zaire had been looted on the president's orders. In future, businessmen who ventured there would demand exceptionally high rates of return and quick profits to justify the risk they were running, and would be careful to repatriate their proceeds rather than invest."

Whatever the initial statement of intent, ‘nationalisation' is like a boulder on a steep hillside - it is initially difficult to get moving but once set in motion is almost impossible to stop or control. The probability is that any kind of expropriation process would rapidly degenerate into the wholesale looting of the economy, and the imposition of a dictatorship to protect the ruling elite's ill-gotten gains.

In the medium term the productive sector of the economy would be destroyed and with it our tax base. This would seriously erode the power and reach of the state, and its ability to act independently of outside influence. At best we will be reduced to an impoverished dependency of China or the West; at worst, the state will collapse, opening the way to warlordism and civil strife. As in Zaire, only vulture capitalists will be willing to fly back in to pick at the carcass remains.

Promoting a discussion on the merits of ‘nationalisation', in this context, is a bit like encouraging a debate on whether the best way of curing a mild headache is taking a Panado - or putting a loaded gun to one's head and pulling the trigger.

There is though a less obvious lesson from history that Zuma seems insufficiently mindful of. As Malema has correctly noted the ANC had a policy of wholesale nationalisation up until the early 1990s. This, as much as sanctions and calls for disinvestment, contributed to a falling away of investment in the South African economy in that period.

This was useful to the ANC in one sense, and harmful in another. On the one side it helped checkmate the NP's ability to govern. Without a growing economy and increasing tax revenues that regime could not try and spend its way out of trouble (at least in a sustainable fashion). On the other, Western support for the ANC's ascent to power in the early 1990s was conditional on it renouncing nationalisation as a policy.

Zuma may allow Malema to go around threatening the seizure of racial minority wealth but it is difficult to see how it will benefit him or his government. The threats are already so loud and persistent that they are drowning out whatever positive message the government is trying to convey. If such threats come to be seen as credible they will erode confidence in the future of the country and kill off inward investment as surely as they did in the late 1980s. But, this time around it will be the ANC's own ability to govern that will be fatally compromised.

Bibliography: Michela Wrong, In the Footsteps of Mr Kurtz, (Fourth Estate: London, 2001)

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Excellent point . . . . . . but do the intended beneficiaries of this wisdom have sufficient economic literacy to understand it? Probably not. by Peter on February 24 2010, 01:53 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Who gives? "If such threats come to be seen as credible they will erode confidence in the future of the country and kill off inward investment as surely as they did in the late 1980s." Do you really think Mr Zuma and his cronies care about the imperialist and . .more colonialist foreigners? . .less by Boerie on February 24 2010, 05:53 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

No expropriation without compensation For so long as section 25 of the Bill of Rights is in place, and the governing alliance continues to be short of the parliamentary majority necessary to amend it, any nationalisation will involve proper compensation to those expropriated. The trillions . .more needed to nationalise the mines are not available. So nationalisation is a pipe dream that is unattainable by any means short of that "revolution" that is called the National Democratic Revolution by its adherents in the ANC even though it is not national, hardly democratic and, thus far, not a revolution. Should the "revolution" materialize a Zimbodian future awaits the nation; a future that will make Mr Kurtz's heart of darkness in Zaire look like a sunday school picnic. The "debate" favoured by Zuma serves as a distraction which divides the fractious alliance he leads and curiously has the communists in it opposing nationalisation on good grounds put forward by Jeremy Cronin in a coolly logical and remarkably unmessianic argument. Wee Julie's recently revealed resignation from a mining company may mask some form of explanation for the ANCYL's devotion to nationalisation; where are our investigative journalists? . .less by Paul Hoffman on February 24 2010, 06:25 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

are we not all missing the point? The fact is that neither Zuma nor anyone else in the higher echelons of the ANC is doing anything at all to reign in this chump. I don't know what this tells you but it surely tells me that malema is supported and encouraged. Zuma of course, . .more does nothing but waffle and is becoming less and less coherent by the hour and his mendacious dissembling about 'debate" and respect for culture shows him to be a weak man of the most cowardly and gormless type. I read somewhere that he said the athlete who gave him the finger realised he was in the wrong because he made an apology. It is my recollection that Zuma himself made an aopolgy for slipping his emblem of banana republic into various females not of his harem yet he seems to have no remorse whatsoever. Zuma is truly vaccilating; more, I beleive he is treacherously uninterested in government and hopelessly bound to those who seek power and Croesus-like wealth . .less by Plutarch on February 24 2010, 07:08 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Malema has lost the plot Initially, I thought Julius was just a radical young man and probably meant well. I was wrong. He is actually very mentally unstable: he is an idiot. The ANC has become an organisation of clowns and thieves. Unfortunately, the masses will continue to vote . .more for them. I guess some people just need low-cost housing and paved roads and do not care about theft. It is disgusting to see the ANS degenarate like this. The biggest problem is that there is no leadership. Zuma is grossly inept and useless. I am deeply worried about this country. The level of corruption is disheartneing; ANC officials are really looting. Former ANC YOuth League members are now multi millionaires: where did they get the money? I used to say white people who were emigrating to Australia and the UK were unpatroitic. I was wrong. The ANC is rotten to the core. Nationalisation is a stupid policy. One needs economics 101 to understand that. I guess Julius Malema has no clue about the production volumes and unit cost curves. When you give mines to unqualified people, production levels decrease and unit cost go up. Most likely, the mines' capacity utilisation rate will fall to 10%. Our export earnings will collapse, so will our GDP growth. How will we fund out budget deficit without the mining industry's income stream? . .less by Lucky Mashimane on February 24 2010, 07:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

If Malema represents the aspirations of the black youth, SA is in deep trouble. Can the ANC not produce one intelligent leader with high moral values? by CM on February 24 2010, 07:19 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

ZUMA/JULIUS SHOULD LEAD BY EXAMPLE I THINK..... Firstly, if he's undermining a gang of out and outANC crooks leave the man be, we need him. By example/ Well I would think Julius would be 'nationalising" his own 4x4 and his 'mining' holding ASAP. Those are the one's he has "resigned' from I belive. by ER on February 24 2010, 07:20 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

malema@zuma keep on this is africa by ivan on February 24 2010, 07:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Why Malema is a problem is simple. no need for a long article. he's a F. U. C. K. I. N. G. idiot!!! by 1 on February 24 2010, 07:31 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

massive contradictions..... On the one hand Zuma tells us that Malema is a future leader of the ANC. On the other hand he tells us that Malema is in conflict with ANC policy in the context of nationalisation. The wellbeing of our economy and foreign direct investment are . .more the two most important pillars of our survival as a viable nation.However, Zuma does nothing to deflect the man whom he sees as a future leader from undermining our economic wellbeing. Could it be that Zuma fears that Malema will defy him and further weaken his standing as the leader of the ANC and President of South Africa. How can can local and foreign investors possibly take any of these people seriously given that the judgement and leadership skills of the main players is so obviously suspect. . .less by gobsmacked on February 24 2010, 07:40 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

When have Africans ever Learned from history? by donovan on February 24 2010, 07:41 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

PS... Apologies to Botswana, a model African nation if ever there was one. Largely shunned, of course, by SADC. by donovan on February 24 2010, 07:42 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

James your articles have a distasteful To insinuate that what happened in Zaire will happen in SA is very narrow minded, ignorant and blatant dumb. You give South African blacks no credit. Infact the opposite is true, you wish South Africa could be like Zaire. But then your article is . .more stupid because how will that help you as an old man in SA or your children. I bet you cannot afford to emigrate to Aussie and therefore do not create unnecessary hate. let us work together to address problems of this country. Constructive critisim would help. Stop these racially biased articles. It is not Africa's or JZ's problem otherwise the voters would have not voted for ANC. It is your problem as a minority. So put it clear that Minority's issue with Malema. JZ said that challenge Malema directly, he did not spell it out that he personally and/or ANC do not support Nationalisation. Does JZ have a problem in Malema. I do not think so. Do proper research before you write in public unless you want to please and entertain minorities with garbage because judging by their comments above they are on cloud nine. . .less by Jojo on February 24 2010, 08:22 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Malema's intentions Since Malema is an ex-director of Ngkape Mining Investments (according to Cipro) and company names must reflect the main objective of a company, he obviously tried to get his hands on the wealth in the ground one way (mineral concessions in the norht?) . .more before trying another (nationalisation). Cronin was right in his comments about Blingo being obsessed with self-enrichment. . .less by Theseus on February 24 2010, 08:27 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

malema Malema will ultimately be defended only by those who have benefited from his patronage, so they say. Many members of the ANCYL feel betrayed by the recent revelation of Malema's opulence and the apparent lies he made to the media. The members say it is . .more not enough for Malema to say the cars he drives etc. are not in his name but to explain, if he is innocent, where these luxuries are coming from and why he is enjoying them for free. His reticence leaves much a lot to be desired. They say Malema has betrayed the revolution and lacks integrity. And they calling for Andile ??? to get ready for taking over. The law should be allowed to take its course, they have said. Please do not shoot the messenger. . .less by passersby on February 24 2010, 08:32 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Mal Enema I,m sure this dog is another of Zumas illegitimate children !!!!!! by George on February 24 2010, 08:45 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Paul My, my Mr. Hoffman you are a clever fellow. Up till now the ANC has showed very little regard for the Constitution. Compensation would probably be the pipe dream you are muttering about. Nationalisation's tomorrow would be like Eben Venter's "Horrelpoot". . .more We are not living in a 1st World situation, ours are fending off the barbarians and their masters as James so aptly describe it above. . .less by Koos on February 24 2010, 08:51 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

nationalisation There will be just enough to keep the elite in luxury. B***** everyone else. by ps on February 24 2010, 08:55 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

ANC Have these people no sense of shame or pride? whatever happend to Ubuntu? by pitie on February 24 2010, 09:02 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Oh dear ! - Jojos...... ...playing with the keyboard again. You know Jojo, I cannot recall a single contribution of yours that was vaguely grammatically correct or remotely understandable. I for one would be interested in your theories,- if only they weren't written in . .more gibberish. Couldn't you get your boss or someone to edit for you. . .less by Voortrekker on February 24 2010, 09:06 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ JOJO Did you read the article properly & did you read your words before releasing them into the public domain. Perhaps you should take off your very own racist blinkers and do a little research of your own . Zaire is just one example . If the writer had to . .more state all examples , the article would have become repetitive & monotonous !!!!! . .less by charles Ndlovu on February 24 2010, 09:07 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Malema doing the bidding Zuma, having proven his shortcomings, are dpendant on Malema to remain in power. He also needs Malema to carry the nationalisation flag. Remember, Zuma's nephew and Zodwa Mandela owns a lot of worthless mines which will be valuable only if nationalised . .more with inflated compensation - easilly achievable. See http://letterdash.com/g.annandale/malema-mining-for-gold . .less by Geanann on February 24 2010, 09:12 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@jojo The only ignorant stupid and dumb person here is yourself.There are numerous examples in Africa not only Zaire of how nationalisation has wrecked countries. Nationalisation is goverment theft of the public's interlectual property for the benfit of the . .more ruling coeterie, and one look no further than than the fact that SA did not have a mining industry until whites came along and developed it.And lastly a little known fact is that at the time of Paul Kruger, the Rand Lords imported 80,000 chinese labourers to alleviate the labour shortage on the mines. . .less by Mike on February 24 2010, 09:14 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

They'll do it anyway! They don't give a hoot. Live for today, you die tommorrow! Its a selfish, destructive nature that drives these people. by DC on February 24 2010, 09:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Why? In the current debate about Malema's millions, the ANC are very quick to point out that Malema is not a public servant, so the rules regarding tenders etc. do not apply to him. In the same breath, Zuma instructs the nation to engage with Malema . .more on the issue of nationalisation. Why should we? He is not a holder of public office and accordingly, cannot demand that we discuss policy with him. If that were the case, then Zuma should ask the nation to engage with anybody who raises policy issues. By their own admission, Malema is a nobody, so maybe we should ignore him. . .less by Samjank on February 24 2010, 09:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Jojo Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Africa is hardly a shining example to the rest of the world, so why should we follow any of the actions taken by African leaders in regard to issues such as nationalisation, communism . .more etc. The insistence of the ANC and its alliance partners on following outdated ideas which have been proved to fail throughout the world is what makes us look stupid. . .less by Samjank on February 24 2010, 09:26 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Malema and Zuma are taking South Africa into the dark ages Both are uneducated, neither understand economics and both say the most ridiculous things. On top of that Zuma is tainted by that fraud and corruption issue which he would not have been able to escape in a 1st world country in my opinion. His main . .more interests are apparently unprotected sex, kids, wives, girlfriends, given his track record and for a country teaming with fatherless hopeless jobless aids ridden people this is just appalling I think. That he just says "lets debate" all the time indicates he is not a brave leader like for example Obama. His inabilty compounds the disaster for SA. As for Malema well the ANC have produced a foolish dangerous racist at their peril. He is the typical black african lunatic like Mugabe and they break everything in sight and get extraordinarily wealthy in the process. . .less by The best the black people can do it seems on February 24 2010, 09:31 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Ignore him and he'll go away Why doesnt the media just ignore Malema. Oh yes it sells newspapers. Ignorance is bliss, and if you ignore him, he will go away. Look at the Semenya issue that the media gave flame to...Its history now. by TX on February 24 2010, 09:45 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

IGNORE THE CRETIN!! Why this article, why the comments? Ignore the animal Don't give him the oxygen of publicity & he must die! He is not worth the paper. He is not fit to be what in Zambia we used to call "the Chimboes Boy" - honeywagon operative! He . .more is another black non-event. The continent is overwhelmed with them "semi-educated" & otherwise, but that does not make them news-worthy for God's sake1 . .less by CICERO on February 24 2010, 09:51 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Engage debate anything but leadership - that is Zuma Meanwhile South Africa is going down the tubes. Is all black leadership like this? Is there a black guy out there who can stop these people closing down South Africa? Where is the new Mandela? As for the World Cup I think one can say that that is not . .more going to be so great. . .less by Investor on February 24 2010, 10:10 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Oh dear I'm beginning to understand what it was like to be a 'when we' and fear that sometime soon it might be time to become one. by Robbie the Grape on February 24 2010, 10:14 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Hypocritical article THe only people who are the problem for this country are hypocritical reactionary rightwinge. Malema initiated a debate and the issue is that those who want to cling to the means of wealth in this country must engage him on this issue. by Iskariot on February 24 2010, 10:20 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Jojo ... your epithets ("narrow minded, ignorant and blatant dumb") do not exactly constitute the constructive criticism that you demand of others. Take the log out of your own eye first! Excellent arguments, Mr Myburgh. Now, if only Julius Malema . .more would debate these points intelligently. Seems to me he's the one refusing to debate. Why do the Malemas and Jojos believe that Debate means who can sling the worst insults? . .less by Saffer on February 24 2010, 10:21 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

On Malema Absurd pronouncements....its funny how journalists twist reporting to propaganda...how can one in the right frame o mind liken Mabutho seseko to Malema...or ANC policies to that traitor?...I think the media has got it wrong again...NATIONALISATION IS . .more GOING AHEAD...SHAME.... . .less by Xoli on February 24 2010, 10:22 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Malema Yeah just ignore us....and go back to Europe...you've had enough of our wealth!!!! by Xoli on February 24 2010, 10:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@jojo The fact is that human beings, black and white are much the same. Give a group of them unfettered power, and they will abuse it in pursuit of their own ends. One example is what happened in Zaire, another is what happened in the Soviet Union, and Kosovo, . .more and Afghanistan, and Iraq, and, yes, even in apartheid South Africa, the list is extensive. It's a pity your racist prejudices preclude you from learning and understanding the lessons of history. The lethal mix we now seem to have in South Africa is the horde of unscrupulous politicians in control of the ANC, and an unsophisticated electorate, polarised on racial lines, conferring power on this unscrupulous horde, regardless of their excesses and the dangerously foolish direction in which the current weak leadership is allowing the more venal and reckless elements of the horde to lead the stampede. It's got nothing to do with race fathead! Do you really think these stinking rich politicians give a damn about the masses, and that their "nationalisation" will be for the benefit of the masses and not for their own enrichment? If you do you are truly beyond reasoning with. . .less by flebus on February 24 2010, 10:33 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Jojo Try to write something coherent if you really have a point to make. by AL on February 24 2010, 10:35 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Re Malema and the rest of the sorry bunch I just love this. The ANC is imploding really fast, and in that implosion the various factions are scrambling to position themselves to take over. And the best tactic ic to discredit their opponents. And this dicrediting and exposing will continue for . .more some time as practically all ANC and alliance elites have skeletons. Its going to be fun, so long as the end result is that the majority of ANC supporters quit in disgust and vote in a government who is interested in their welfare. . .less by Al on February 24 2010, 10:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Can black voters understand that they are cheating themselves? Our next election will show whether Malema's, Zumas and their entire mafia's personal enrichment at the expense of the poor can stifle the misconception that the uneducated and unskilled majority will benefit from driving whites into the . .more sea. That is what the future of all starving blacks hinges on. . .less by Siegfried Hannig on February 24 2010, 10:53 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

SA's possible IDI AMIN Ignore or write off julius at your own peril. He does not care nor need any approval from the current governing body he represents the people. It's now up to the masses to dethrone him - not likely when his words are music to their ears! by Scared stiff. on February 24 2010, 10:56 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

SERIOUSLY COMPROMISED PRESIDENT Good point by Samjank and Plutarch. It is also noteworthy that Jacob Regop stated that it is "not Government Policy" and that he is alarmingly quiet about whether this is ANC Policy or not. If it isn't (ANC Policy), then it would be fair to presume that . .more the ANC should have called Julius baby to order - they do pay his salary don't they - Julius himself said it's "way above R20,000 p.m.". The fact that he now wants everybody (except the ANC) to go into debate with little Julius is sufficient reason to become extremely worried. And then finally, if there has ever been a seriously compromised president of a country then look no further. We should not forget that the only way JZ was able to avoid his day in court he so dearly asked for, was to become SA's president (yoy don't dare prosecure a president!). And Julius baby assisted him all the way. So there is absolutely no way that he can oppose Julius now on anything - no matter what. Another scary thought and possibility is also that Julius may in fact, notwithstanding the aforementioned, be very convenient for the ANC - it's like (accidentally) letting a police dog free every now and then to bite people, and when there's damage you just tell the victim to take it up with the police dog and not with the handler. . .less by Sipho on February 24 2010, 10:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Jojo is right Nationalisation in RSA should develop through debate as a win-win policy for all concerned and not as in Zaire by a "decreed" - that is when things go wrong. In any case, the British has also grabbed (with guns) what did not belong to them in RSA. I say . .more let us debate the process to give it back as well as the fortunes they took out of our country. . .less by Pierre on February 24 2010, 10:58 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Its African liberation politics taken to its natural conclusion, all over again _ by Greykie on February 24 2010, 10:58 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

I never said I support Nationalisation I never said Zaire is the only example. @ Voortrekker English is not my mother tounge and it is not my fault that I am the product of bantu education. I do not care about f*** grammar as long as you get the drift. which I think you do. You just playing . .more dirty tricks thinking that I will backoff. Poor you. Charles Ndlovu, Mike, you are just dumb. Zaire is not the only country but your glorified writer James Myburgh went to town about Zaire so I cannot talk abt Zim or any other African countries. Get a life. . .less by Jojo on February 24 2010, 11:01 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

not really a counter argument James, stating where it has failed does not mean the cocnept is wrong. The UK nationalised all key infrastructure post war to ensure that it extended to places that a business would not extend to as the IRR/NPV would not merit the business case. The UK . .more subsequently privatised the power industry and the shareholders have seen significant growth. HOWEVER, currently the UK is looking at nationalising parts of the industry again as no major investment has been given to generation capacity within the current tariff structure. This sounds familair, but they are addressing it and raising nationalisation as an issue. Nationalsiation also provides greater employment as government we know can not work as efficiently as private sector, but nor really does it care as it does not need an NPV>####. An NPV of 0 will suffice to a government if it creates employment. Do Anglo think the same, no way. However, I think the argument should be what to nationalise as the UK only nationalised infrastructure not source. It strikes me as odd we talk of IPP in power but nationalisation of mining. That is an inconsistency in approach that should be examined. . .less by inwiththenew on February 24 2010, 11:01 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@jojo Yeah, jojo, it's not about race as you believe, but it pays the ANC to keep people like you thinking opposition to them is all about race. Do take a hard look at what these blighters (like Malema and the other tenderpreneurs) are up to. Their . .more only concern for the masses is their vote, and they are assured of this as long as the masses think it's about race. Hopefully the masses will wake up before we are irreversibly bankrupt. . .less by flebus on February 24 2010, 11:17 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Nationalisation I'm not sure whether hypocrites who write here understood the President or they blinded by their hatred for him. I will not comment much abou Julius because I personally think he's just an attention seeker who deserve to be taught a lot about politics and . .more accompanying concepts. Let me get back to what the President said, he implored us to respond to Julius and the ANCYL with sound debate instead of demanding of him to shut the loudmouth up, something I agree with and I guess Jojo ire with some of you stems from the fact that instead responding to what Julius raises, you attack the President. Can you imagine if the President was start shutting people up because some of us do not agree with what they say or espouse. Mr. Myburgh, your piece does not present scientific counter proposal to what the ANCYL presents but present an example and instill fear to an already poisoned environment. To me your piece does the same to what was done by the prophets of doom did prior the 1994 elections with racist undertones if I may add. I suggest we do what the President asks of us, lets debate with facts and scientific reasoning so that Malema and ilk can learn a thing or two. . .less by Njabuliso on February 24 2010, 11:59 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@jojo Zaire was used as a case study.How many do you need to get the message. by Mike on February 24 2010, 12:01 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

UK Nationalisation It took Maggie Thatcher to pull the UK out of the pig mire because of the Labour Parties policies after the war and the only persons talking about nationalisation at the moment are the Labour Party who are about to be voted out. Why id France . .more known as the sick man of Europe, precisely because of goverment nationalised industries which is why the automotive industry shifted to Japan who does not have nationalised industries bit a work ethic. . .less by @inwiththenew on February 24 2010, 12:06 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@UK Nationalisation To quote John Mauldin: "Japan is a bug in search of a windshield". The point being that Nationalisation did have an effect in UK post war and achieved the goals as set by a Labour Government as voted for at that time. The fact that later people who had . .more become uplifted then decided greater wealth was available in privatisation is a sign of greed post wealth creation as there was something to sell that did not previously exist, not a negative of nationalisation. Since privatisation, has employment generally gone up or down in those industries? This I understand to be the position of the ANCYL. As I say, I would query what they are looking at privatising as a policy, ignoring the obvious issue of grabbing money, but looking at the politics and the merits thereof. If you nationalise the infrastructure, this does not mean you nationalise the automotive industry, so why move to another country? The point being should longer term national interests lie with private companies or the Government. Are mines part of longer term national interest? Should nationalisation only occur on mines that are currently in care and maintenance or deemed currently unviable for the IRR/NPV of the holder? . .less by inwithhenew on February 24 2010, 12:20 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@flebus You seem not to understand English. Once again I will repeat myself to try get the message to squarhead. James Myburgh's articles have a racial undertone and he must stop arguing his points using race. @Mike your comment is just a waste of . .more time. Don't have anything better to do. Are you bored? . .less by Jojo on February 24 2010, 12:34 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Nationalizatio Julius Malema once more is a threat to Capitalists and not JZ and the Country. Apartheid SA nationalised mines and parastatals to the benefit of the minority. Now that JM talks about it African failed states are used to bring fear to us. by Pops on February 24 2010, 12:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

ANC ELDERS GUTLESS It amases me that Zuma defends somebody (Malema) that has insulted the PRESIDENT OF RSA by calling him "Sweethearts". By Zuma's non reaction to this shows what kind of a poor leader he is. How is it that everybody in the ANC has ignored this insulting . .more comment. . .less by bab on February 24 2010, 13:19 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Does'nt the Zairean case study... sound familiar. At a guess I would think that SA is half way there taking into account all the inefficiencies brought about by the BBEEE reverse discrimination policies of the ANC government! @Plutarch- I wonder when Zoooma is going to apologize to . .more the nation for he regularly shows the SA citizens the middle finger when sprouting forth on TV and this is not restricted to SA. Watch him carefully, you will note that he actually times it to the T as to when he gives all and sundry the middle finger! . .less by Zorba on February 24 2010, 13:21 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@jojo When ever the top ten richest persons list is published every black in that list is an incumbent President of an African country eg Mobutu Sese Seko and the present Dos Santos of Angola. That is what nationalisation is all about so please, . .more please try and put up some from of debate against the facts that have been stated. . .less by Mike on February 24 2010, 13:47 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@inwiththenew Why did Germany and Japan not go the nationalisation route after the war and which is the most successful economy between the UK Germany and Japan. by Mike on February 24 2010, 13:50 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Mike Germany went the social market route and the social costs can outweigh the labour costs. Note however, Germany did pass a law in 2009 allowing nationalisation of banks - so again, they accept in certain circumstances nationalisation is not a bad thing. . .more Japan also did not go the "anglo saxon free market route" and MITI is an example of that. Both countries also were able to invest wholly in business and growth whilst UK and USA obviously spent a small fortune on armies and ensuring nothing untoward happened by investing in Japan and Germany. Mauldin seems unimpressed with Japan as I have said give his often quoted view of japan though from a GNP would be a "winner" as you have queried. None of these issues seem to rule out the option of nationalisation though... . .less by inwiththenew on February 24 2010, 15:00 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Rich Lists Going to the Forbes rich list, tell me when you come across one of these leaders. Very very low down. Does this not emphasise the point that business makes vastly more profit than Government and reinforces the point that an alternative is to nationalise . .more to benefit far more people? The debate is not whether if we Nationalise some or other politician or army commander will take the lot as Myburgh has moved it on to, the debate is whether Nationalisation will achieve the goals of increased employment and wealth distribution. If the debate was lets nationalise and then give it to 10 people, and let the country rot, I am quite sure jojo et al would say no to that. Jojo simply seems to take exception to the fact it is presumed nationalisation equals that event. . .less by @Mike v. jojo on February 24 2010, 15:28 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

rich lists post by "inwiththenew" apologies.. I was too keen to push the submit button to check...! by inwiththenew on February 24 2010, 15:29 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

It is good that we all have opinions and this is necessary to keep our democracy alive. But what is arguably most important for a living democracy in a developing country, hungry for socialism, is to allow due processes of law to take their course without any hindrances from the powerful, and arguably to shelve . .more the idea of nationalisation of mines away for other economic growth stimulating strategies of the modern day. . .less by passrsby on February 24 2010, 15:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

he has been undermining the anc for a while the only reason i could think of that enables him to get away with it is that he has some dirt on the big chief in charge.... by siment on February 24 2010, 16:04 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Malema/Zuma nationalisation Not only in Africa are there examples. Most of what was nationalised in England is again private enterprise. Gunnar by Gunnar on February 24 2010, 16:09 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

We must reap the rewards If white people had embrassed tranformation in this country we would not be having the kind of questions being asked today. Lack of opportunities for black youth, total surbotage of economic transformation has created young people who find resonance with . .more what Malema stands for. He makes the pronouncements he does knowing very well there is groundswell support for them. These levels of poverty breed fertile ground for populism.You had ample opportunity to make a meaningful contribution to finding solutions in this country yet at every given opportunity you frustrated gvt plans to create effective change. Where you could you resorted to buying influence and compliance. The issue of fronting was your circumvention tactic. You repeatedly vendor financed equity acquisition by the connected few because you wanted to corrupt the system. It is rather expedient to blame govt for corruption now. All I know is that it takes two to tango. . .less by Gambu on February 24 2010, 16:18 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Nationalisation debate No-one wants to debate Julie on nationalisation because it would be a debate that has already taken place, and nationalisation proponents lost the debate. The Forbes list contains capitalists as the richest because capitalism has made their . .more countries economically successful. In Africa the richest men are so because one way or another they "nationalised" their economies so only they and their cronies could get rich. . .less by Jeff on February 24 2010, 16:53 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Mike To me i do not think nationalisation of mines is not an option. Education, skills development, incentives for job creation and labour policies favouring employment creation are the key. I do not even want to discuss looting that has occurred in . .more other African countries. SA has a democratic rule and the fact that we have the 3rd president in 15yrs then it means we are unlikely to have a dictator in this country. In my view Malema is testing the waters and getting the market to accept the Mine Nationalisation possibility so that it does not come as a shock. We have seen the inefficiencies and blunders in our parastatals. we do not want mining to go the same route. . .less by Jojo on February 24 2010, 17:06 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Zuma/Malema Nationalisation To Jojo and Iskariot - The whole of Africa is an example of what happens when "nationalisation" or "land grabbing" takes place. How productive are the farms in Zim now belonging to "the people"? Why does South Africa have to feed them? Only Capitalism . .more generates oportunities for ordinary people with intelligence to create a better life for themselves. Nationalisation/communism has never done it. Read your history and oh, by the way read "Capitalist N*****" written by a Nigerian journalist who has lived in the US for more than 20 years and see what he says about Africa's real problem - believe me it is not Caucasians or Asians who are Africa's problem and reason for their dismal performance on the world's stage. "clinging on to wealth" bah - why don't you use your intellect and graft to create your own wealth - why do you always want to steal others wealth?? . .less by Rentia on February 24 2010, 17:21 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

MALEMA/MINING Does these people even know how to mine? What it entails ? Do they posses the knowledge, skills and guts it takes to run a mining company ? How on earth will they be stopped to fill their own designer suit's pockets and the pockets of their Mercs and . .more Benz's cars? Will the poor struggling people receive any benefits ? Jislaak , man, dit is mos nie moonltik nie. in Ek stem saam met die ander skrywer Julias Maleme is is groot P**P*L !!!!! Hy is een groot D**S !! . .less by MARIE VAN GRAAN - WESTONARIA on February 24 2010, 17:21 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@gambu You claim that : "If white people had embraced transformation in this country we would not be having the kind of questions being asked today. Lack of opportunities for black youth, total sabotage of economic transformation has created young . .more people who find resonance with what Malema stands for." Your statement is really inaccurate. Sensible white people do embrace transformation; but not the mindless kind of "cadres to the fore" nonsense the ANC calls "transformation". As in sport, real and sustainable transformation starts from the bottom up. Putting underqualified people in charge of enterprises, and less skilled people in charge of better skilled people solely on the basis of race, is as bad as the Nats' racist policies under apartheid. Not making appointments because there are no suitably skilled blacks, but only skilled whites, is job reservation in reverse and is abhorrent. THESE are the things most whites and sensible blacks cannot support. Education and training, mentoring etc. and ensuring excellence across the board is the way to go; not fiddling with outcomes based on race alone. . .less by flebus on February 24 2010, 18:19 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

runhare@live.com In Latin; "L'ANC è pieno di suini grassi" means that the ANC is full of fat pigs. by Eddy on February 24 2010, 19:36 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@gambu And what do you think of Eskom's importing skilled blacks from other countries to meet their EE quotas, and then have nothing for them to do? Is a system of racial quotas defensible in a so-called non-racist society, and does it not reflect poorly on . .more the racist attitude of the ruling party and its state-run enterprises? So who's racist? . .less by flebus on February 24 2010, 19:41 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ jojo Siestog, Jojo, these boere are very rude and condescending. They forget that they forced most blacks to have inferior education and live in impoverished environments. @ Voortrekker. You are a very well-educated and well spoken knob. I'm sure . .more you'll burn in hell one day and that is enough for me. . .less by Hectic on February 24 2010, 19:41 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Eddy What you got against pigs? They're too smart to join the ANC; try skunks, that's what Mbeki was. Maybe vultures and hyenas are more fitting metaphors for the ANC scum. by Oompah on February 24 2010, 20:59 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

re: ANC adult monetary policy In order for Malema to make the argument of nationalisation of our south african mining industry he should be making the claim/charge on behalf of the Communism supposedly inherent in the SACP. He is not a pure member of the SACP, self-evidently, . .more otherwise he would be national big shot of the SACP. But maybe our erstwhile President of our country from the ruling party knows that when JC grows up he will be like most of the ANC's known faces, and will migrate to becoming a noted billionaire of the South African economy. So let the child speak his mind, ( a 28 year old child is afterall a grotesque exaggeration in Nature) he's no real threat, His bark is worse than his bite and he will at some point in time be a bought and sold ANC politician and probably also a future president. Who can say? Question thus becomes. how long will it take the retard to realise that he's retarded. It's a question I always ask myself . Rhetorical. . .less by Ekenj on February 24 2010, 22:45 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Jojo and other racially blinded goons!!! Considering that Tokyo,Cyril and Patric(all ANC black men) own more than 67% of the mines and Zuma and Mandelas grandsons are buying up mined out empty mines(why?) like there is no tomorrow, this is not about reclaiming black minerals for black . .more people...that was done years ago with crony capitalism and BEE sparked nepotism. Mines don't belong to white people any more anyway. The problem is since the recession and after so many wage strikes its simply not economical to mine any more.With the latest Ekdom increase Mining is dead. Nationalisation (paid for version) will be the "reasonable compromise" that the ANC will make after they have instructed radical juju to put out there we will take them with force.Its like the Eskom we want 35% when we want 25% thing.Aim way left and accept middle of the road and everyone is happy? So the government will pay (with our taxes) a fair price (as determined by the cronies) to their cronies(Patric,Cyril,Tokyo) for mines that are worthless probably at 1990 prices when them hills still had some gold worth mining. Yes Jojo your cotton pickin taxes. Come to think about it Ii would not be surprised f Tokyo is Malema's backer. . .less by Fred on February 25 2010, 09:14 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Open your eyes to the trueth- racism is blinding all, black,white, yellow I believe that all that suscribe to Moneyweb have a level of intellignce nad education worthy of holding their own in an intelligent debate. Now that that is out of the way, I 100% agree with @Jojo and other raciallt blinded goons. Juju, Zuma, . .more patric, Cyril, Tokyo, are all taking us for the biggest ride ever pulled of by a signle group of people in all the world, and guess what, they are laughing at our blind attacks at each other, laughing at all the diversions tha we just love to lap up...how many fabricated pictures of Juju's house and cars have we seen in the last few days...we are giving them amunision... Calling on all Africans, I don't care where you are green, or purple, have the eloquence of a Harvard graduate or have a humble matric, you all are intelligent enough. JUST OPEN YOUR EYES FOR LONG ENOUGH TO RECOGNISE WHAT IS GOING HERE!! . .less by Eyes wide open on February 25 2010, 11:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Fred Could not agree more that capitalists are busy positioning themselves for what they would be pushing for. This would again fall out of any debate as to who would benefit on what was nationalised and why. I think in that debate, it remains that for a . .more given country at various stages nationalisation of core infrastructure may well be a good thing. Who will invest in RSA if there is no power, no water, no infrastructure? Who will build that if there is no end user agreement? The problem with the article above remains that the contention is that nationalisation equals destruction an is therefore not worthy of debate. That is simply not the case. Corruption equals destruction, and as you have written, that destruction could well be driven by capitalists, not socialists... . .less by inwiththenew on February 25 2010, 12:56 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@inwiththenew Neither Eskom or Transnet or the Sewage treatment plants are run by capitalists in South Africa and yet they are a disaster.Nationalisation in Africa goes hand in hand with the politicians and the coeterie surrounding them and it is a smoke screen for the . .more theft of intelectual and physical property. Read else where on moneyweb and you find that Europe is in dire straits because of socialism. . .less by Mike on February 25 2010, 16:51 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Hypocrisy I am cleverly pretending to be Robin Hood, steal from the rich mining companies with their "means of production" (sic) and giving to the poor elite. But I am very clever and what I am actually doing is stealing from the poor, you know, the ones that . .more vote for us, and giving to myself. Maybe a friend or woman too. There is no word for bridge in Pedi and why must I know how to build these things? I must lead the youth league in business and if they can make money like I do, they must just do it. When everything starts falling apart I have another clever plan, first I blame the racists and take their things. When the World interferes I will blame Impir..imperal...imperialist and colonialist for what is being done to me now. Being a black diamond is so very expensive these days and I have to buy girls many things to get with them, so I will tender to the day I die. While I do this I will preach all of my limited insight into socialism to the people, because they must be social and happy. It is like 50cent say "The Massacre" . .less by Julius Ceaser on March 01 2010, 22:54 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Please help I just got lot of money. What is better mercedes benz or BMW? by Petrus on March 17 2010, 18:09 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Jojo You say "...otherwise the voters would have not voted for ANC..." as if the voters are intelligent enough to understand what they are voting for? People who's vote can be bought with a R20 food parcel weeks before the election are not very . .more sharp. It is a primitive instinct to want to still your hunger now, and not consider the future. And don't go blaming bantu education for your lack of grammer, or worse still, your lack of common sense. Losers list excuses. My friend, whether you want to admit it or not, the problem in Africa, is the Africans. It has always been the Africans. Read the article below and tell me that under the ANC's greed and corruption South Africa will be the shining exception to the rule of a continent falling to pieces after liberation? Why, if you hit your head a dozen times against the floor, you expect that the 13th blow will suddenly not hurt? http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/stagnating-black-countries/ . .less by Scorpion on March 25 2010, 14:47 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

=> A GOVERNMENT THAT ROBS PETER TO PAY PAUL CAN always DEPEND UPON THE SUPPORT OF PAUL - George Bern... ... makes me think of Zimbabwe and SA's presidents......... by Fielasting on April 09 2010, 09:45 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

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