Racial quotas at UCT

Over the past few months the American media has taken something of an interest in the race-based admissions policy of the University of Cape Town. In late November the New York Times ran an article on the topic, and in the past week National Public Radio has run a similar report.

UCT requires that applicants classify themselves according to the old apartheid designations of white, coloured, Indian and black. Differing admissions criteria are then applied depending on which of these racial categories the applicant belongs to.

For instance, for entry into the MBChB programme a "Black" applicant needs to score 36 points on their matric results and 15 (out of 30) points on the National Benchmarking Test; a "Coloured" applicant 40 and 16 points; an "Indian" or "Chinese" applicant 46 and 24 points; and a "White" applicant 47 and 24 points.

The ultimate goal of the policy is to ensure that composition of the university ultimately comes to reflect the racial proportions of society as a whole. As the University states: "As a matter of policy we aim for a student body which has a significant number of international students and where the local component of our student body increasingly reflects the demographics of the South African population."

Perhaps not surprisingly both the NYT and NPR view the debates, within the university, around this policy through race conscious American lenses. The Times states that UCT is "engaged in a searching debate about just how far affirmative action should go to heal the wounds of an oppressive history." The NPR report meanwhile begins by stating: "Universities in South Africa are wrestling with an issue familiar to many Americans: affirmative action."

By framing their articles in this way - as an issue of "redress" for past wrongs - both reports morally prejudge the debate and, in many ways, miss the point. It is useful, from a historical point of view, to contrast UCT's current policy with the principles articulated in the early 1980s when the National Party government moved to begin desegregating the English universities.*

Up until 1983 a person who was not white had had to apply, individually, for a ministerial permit if they wished to study at a ‘white' university. Clause 9 of the Universities Amendment Bill, introduced that year, provided for the permit system to be replaced by a quota system. The number of black students allowed in each ‘white' university would be stipulated annually by the appropriate Minister of State.

Although representing something of a practical improvement on the existing system UCT, Rhodes, Wits and Natal all objected to this "quota clause" on principle. The Vice Chancellor of Wits, Daniel du Plessis, stated "The fundamental issue is that the Witwatersrand University holds that race, colour, religion and gender are not academic criteria, and that no non-academic criteria should intrude into the selection process of an academic institution. This is basic to our philosophy and policy."

UCT meanwhile took out advertisements in the Cape Town newspapers objecting to the government's transfer to the university of this "obligation of denying admission to black students who qualify on academic grounds" and involving the university in the enforcement of "objectionable discriminatory laws."

The Vice Chancellor of UCT, Stuart Saunders, stated that the reason the four universities "find the Bill totally unacceptable" reflects the fact "that these universities have, for more than a quarter-century, actively rejected racial criteria for admission to university." He also claimed that the legislation was "imposing upon the university itself the distasteful and objectionable task of rejecting students on racial grounds because of a quota imposed upon it"; and argued that, "race classification is an objectionable and irrelevant consideration whether it be applied through permits or quotas."

In parliament, in June 1983, the Progressive Federal Party MP, Alex Boraine, also spoke passionately against the Bill. He stated:

"The quota system is a system which restricts admission on the grounds of race. It is based, therefore, on race classification on the Population Registration Act. When one applies for a permit or when one applies under the quota system one produces one's birth certificate. That is the kiss of death, as it were, for a young Coloured, Indian or Black student, because the moment he applies he is not asked for his matriculation certificate-they do not ask him how well he did at school or what his symbols were, but he is asked what his colour is. That is the quota system. It is racially enshrined."

He then asked rhetorically, "What are we to make of this quota system? Where does it come from? What is its inspiration?" His answer:

"In the 19th Century this was imposed in order to limit the admissions of Jews to institutions of higher learning and was applied in the 19th Century by Tsarist Russia and extended in the 20th Century particularly to countries in Eastern Europe but also to others. It is perhaps not without coincidence that during the rule of Stalin [in the Soviet Union], such as system was also applied. This hon. Minister has learned well from what has taken place in Tsarist Russia and in the Soviet Union. Perhaps the most infamous of all took place in Nazi Germany."

Boraine proceeded to cite the Law against the Overcrowding of German Schools and Higher Institutions adopted by the national socialist government in Germany in April 1933. This had decreed that, "In the admission of new students attention is to be paid to the number of German students who are not of Aryan descent ... may not exceed in each school and faculty the proportion of non-Aryans to the entire German population [1.5%]. That proportion will be uniformly determined for the entire nation."

He commented: "Whenever they admitted a student after the rise of Hitler and the Nazis they had to produce a birth certificate in order to determine whether they had any Jewish blood. This was a racial decree and I want to say to hon. members on the other side that this quota system is nothing more and nothing less than an approximation of the Hitler decree."

When an MP objected that this was untrue, Boraine responded:

"It is the truth. Tell me why it is not the truth? Exactly the same approach is being followed here. What I am in effect saying, is that members on that side have sat at the feet of the Soviet Union and of the Nazis and have learned, and now they are introducing a quota system where Blacks are denied entrance into our universities, not on the basis of academic merit, but purely and solely on the basis of race."

Although the legislation was passed by parliament, allowing direct black entry into the formerly ‘white' universities, the quota provision was never actually enforced. As Saunders stated in 1986 "I think the Government came to realise how repulsive a quota system based on race is for any university and has wisely decided not to apply it. They would be even wiser to repeal the legislation. For as long as it stands on the statute books it must be recognised in principle. Using it would do enormous damage to our universities in the world of international scholarship recalling that the Stalin regime and Hitler imposed racial quota systems."

In April 1991 the Education Minister, Louis Pienaar, announced that the offending section was to be removed from the statute books: "Although quotas were never determined, the deletion of this provision indicates once again the government's commitment to recognise the autonomy of universities and demonstrates its undertaking to abolish racial discrimination from the statute book."

From the mid-1980s UCT applied a corrective action policy based upon real disadvantage students had suffered at the hands of apartheid discrimination (but not, on principle, on race). The university pursued this policy of ‘equal opportunity affirmative action' up until the mid-1990s. According to its pre-1996 mission statement UCT strove "to maintain a strong tradition of non-discrimination in regard to race" both in the constitution of its student body and in the selection and promotion of its academic and administrative staff. Students would be selected on merit, although special criteria would be used to identify disadvantaged students with potential, and they would be given extra assistance to help them succeed.

In 1994 the African National Congress came to power and increasingly asserted, under Thabo Mbeki's leadership, its African nationalist agenda. Like many other racialist movements through history it made the demand that the universities, along with all other sectors of society, limit the proportion of minorities to their percentage of the population.

Instead of resisting or opposing this principle UCT adopted it as its own. Where it moderated it, and balanced it against other competing considerations, was in its application. This may have been a shrewd decision, politically and tactically, given the power of the ANC, and its racial demands, at the time. (UCT does seem to have done much better than some other universities in manoeuvring, albeit in a somewhat slimy way, through the transition.)

But its decision to place race at the centre of its admissions policy, and apply (in all but name) racial quotas, represents a complete betrayal of the principles it once invoked in the struggle against Apartheid-era discrimination.

Perhaps more importantly it represents a profound intellectual failure. The contribution of our universities to public debate in South Africa, over the past decade, has been pathetic.

Perhaps the main reason for this was that so many academics simply floated along, as UCT did as an institution, with the tide of the ascendant racial nationalism. South Africa is now dealing with destructive consequences of that project. It is difficult to see what contribution UCT can make to understanding and correcting these, for as long as it clings to the odious racial principle that lay at the heart of it.

* Note: Much of the following is based on research and writing originally published in 2007.

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@Kom Net Met Dromedaries Hey Dimwit, maybe they change admission policy to one point .... and then you get to go to university ..... by Insomnia on May 12 2011, 07:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

And your point is? The flaw in the article is to raise questions and provide historical perspective without attempting to guide what is to be done to redress the injustices of the past. If quotas based on race are not the way to go, what then? There is no need to write . .more about an important national question without putting something substantive on the table to debate about. This article opens just a debate about comparisons. Whether the quota systems at UCT as imposed by the ANC government could be comparable to the NATS'. The answer appears to be yes, without clearly looking at the intent then and now. Although the author facetiously implies the intent by the ANC is purely African Nationalism. Is there anyhting wrong with African nationalism in an African continent? Also this nationalist fervor could merely be a depository for Africans to re-assert themselves as Africans and reclaim their own heritage. In my opinion there is a "profound intellectual failure represented" by the article. It is disingenous to say the bill was passed without the offending clause actually being implemented by the Universities. How do we know? When applying then to these institutions non-whites were required to state their race, gender and tribal origin together with their dom pas (ID), qualifications and a good word (testimonial) from a respected white compatriot . .less by Tony on May 12 2011, 08:14 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Kom Net Met Dromedaries on May 12 2011, 08:06 ....just in case you wondered why.... REPORT IT:- You find this comment offensive? Why? "It is deliberately offensive, provocatively insulting, & no contribution to real debate". Now go & wash your mouth out & . .more stay in your padded cell untill your counsellor uncertifies you, please. ChikurubiSangoma . .less by John Austin on May 12 2011, 08:26 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Tony Is there anyhting wrong with African nationalism in an African continent? No but if it is based on colour and race. it is very, very wrong. Coloureds, Indians, and Whites born in Africa are also Africans. by Mother Africa on May 12 2011, 08:30 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Tony The key problem here is thet by attepmting to fix problems of the past, we create problems of the future. Firstly, By insisting that black students achieve 11 points less, we limit universities roles as "institutes of higher learning". By producing . .more tertiary graduates that have a lower intellect (which is what will happen), we damage our country going forward, as the greater minds are potentially excluded. Tell me, will you use the services of a black or white doctor, knowing that the white doctor had to achieve 35% more just to qualify? Secondly, as a black person, I find such a policy highly offensive. We are being told that we cannot compete on equal footing. What mindset do these grauduates enter the real world with? I will always get preferential treatment? So, how do we fix the problems of the past. Education. But the ANC has botched that .... 16 years later the majority of black students dont emerge from matric, and those that do, can barely read or write. We need to overhaul the education system where schools and teachers are rewarded for results. Where SADTU is stopped at once, and not allowed to drop standards further. Where corporates (instead of meaningless BEE and SETA contributions) must contribute a % of revenue to sponsoring the education young underprivelaged children. . .less by Insomnia on May 12 2011, 08:34 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Comments @ everyone, if you are interested in commenting on these issues more comprehensively, check out our site wecandobetter.co.za. We would really love hearing from you. by Stanley Black on May 12 2011, 08:43 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

very well researched It has always seemed very strange to me that 20 years after the last significant apartheid law was abolished, the first thing that UCT university looks at when an 18 year applies, is whether he or she would pass the pencil test ie whether they would have . .more been classified as "Black" by the apartheid government (there is no way to determine that nowadays because those laws were abolished 25 years ago). A Black skinned student and a white skinned student could have grown up together in the same schools and get the same marks - they apply to UCT and the black skin student gets in but the White skin student is devastated that he is refused because he has the wrong colour skin and it counts against him. It is a fact that I have seen potential students debating whether to go to UCT or Stellenbosch actually say "I am applying to Stellenbosch because I would only get in to UCT if I was Black". Rather a sad situation in an era that is supposed to be non racist - perhaps it is time for UCT to relook their race based entrance criteria ... alternatively, potential students should fight the system and when asked for their race, put down "Black" even if their skin is pale - let the university figure out how to prove you are not black in the absence of any laws to back them up. Legally nowadays, you are whatever race group you want to be. . .less by Sad Days on May 12 2011, 08:52 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Keeps them dumb! it simply classifies whites as more intelligent and far superior to blacks. And this comes straight from government. Black South Africans will never be free and uplifted by a government that keeps then dumb! by Clever White on May 12 2011, 09:36 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Transformation difficulties The article is well researched and I do not think an alternative solution should be expected from the author. He made an important point and the powers that be (government, universities etc) should be bombarded with questions surrounding an . .more alternative. Escom reached their target of racial transformation many a moon ago, but how are they coping? Some land was given back their original owners, but how are the new age farmers coping? The methods of transforming a society should be measured against what you aim to achieve. . .less by Howard Klaaste on May 12 2011, 09:51 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

At least UCT is still functioning properly It adopted a very successful parallel programme for med students who in the first couple of years were not coping and reintroduced them into main stream. At the end of the day the finals is where the playing field is level. A black child who fails . .more subjects is allowed to rewrite more than once whereas a white child is not and fails the year. Two friends black and white who went and did the same course and came from the same private school joked that the one could party more as he had more chances etc. But that changed radically when the back one realised the extra stress involved etc. Kids will be kids and take chances. You have no idea how well they are integrated at school and university. The Indian and Chinese kids have a much higher work ethic. The white kids are forced to get down to the grindstone because they have to achieve higher marks which is good , it forces them to be more disciplined to take AD Maths, etc to get more points. At the end of the day it helps them to cope more easily at University. UJ, Natal and others hand out worthless degrees , no wonder the graduates find it hard to find employment. . .less by DM on May 12 2011, 10:35 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

This is a serious indictment of UCT Thank you, James, for this expose of the decline of moral integrity at UCT. This is a shocking and depressing - although not unexpected - revelation. I used to admire Max Price for his earlier commitment to non-racialism and freedom. He has now shown . .more his true colours: as the head of UCT, he has become nothing more than an obsequious and grovelling apologist for the ruling ANC fascist order and their odious racial policies; a dutiful follower of "orders" in the mould of Eichmann and Himmler. Price is now at the same moral level of the likes of "Kortbroek" van Schalkwyk. Except that Van Schalkwyk has always demonstrated lack of moral principle and his intelligence is questionable. As an academic and intellectual, Price has no excuse. . .less by Graham on May 12 2011, 11:30 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

I not Boer. I clevir. I think I clevir. Only 27 years and I make it to standerd six. Mummy tell me I am special child. I not think she being nasty, I think she mean I am clevir. by Mute Fool-dhubhula ibhunu on May 12 2011, 11:30 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

qoutas but UCT is not the only institution that does this....Univ of Pta is also doing the same! by Me2 on May 12 2011, 12:01 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Mute Fool-dhubhula ibhunu I bet that you are just another troll on this site as you dont give any credible input to any debate. I think everybody should just ignore you. by Eish on May 12 2011, 12:02 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Mute Fool-dhubhula ibhunu I bet that you are just another troll on this site as you dont give any credible input to any debate. I think everybody should just ignore you. by Eish on May 12 2011, 12:02 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Racial quotas at UCT It makes sense: it provides for the intelligence of the different race groups. by Jules on May 12 2011, 12:06 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Solution? I think the historically background is well reserached, but if one looks at the problem statement that the writer is trying to find an alternatives solution to, he fails dismally to provide any alternatives except to lay a blame on what UCT tried to . .more achive, I remeber what proj Jansen wrote ebout the same saga, but he as well failed to bring to thefore what he thinks should an alternatives slution to address the imbalances of the past except to say that, the quota system undersetamate the intelligence of the same black kids the policy is trying to address. i think, these so called intellectual are missing th, to them it looks the past imbalances should be forgotten as if they never happened if it is a national debate let us debate about if and come out with an amicable solution that will address the past discriminations. Let us have a solution and stop bickering. . .less by Neil on May 12 2011, 12:10 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

More of a disadvantage Now Black students have to work twice as hard in order to regain their credibility, Puts them at an immediate disadvantage by concerned on May 12 2011, 12:11 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

racial quotas for doctors We should do what is done overseas...the students are not required to even put their names , no religons,no race on their application forms, just your academic qualification and a registration number. Therefore we get Dotcors who are REAL doctors with . .more the right "brain power". Being a doctor is the most responsible job. it deals with human life. Human life does not recognise colour its just the skill thats saving a life. . .less by just asking on May 12 2011, 12:30 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Article Ever came to the conclusion that, yes, there are different entrance criteris for various prospective students, but once they are in, everyone receives the same level of university education? The reasoning on entrance criteria are quite clear, . .more in that the majority of black students, hail from a historically disenfranchised education past. This does not mean this argument can be blown out of the water because we've had 17 years to fix this problem. There are several socio economic permutations to consider, both past and present, when unpacking the entrance criteria. Bottom line is that we need our academic graduates to be representive of the demographics of this country, reflecting our diversity. Also, this is not a permanent solution, but an interim one. . .less by The Moxster on May 12 2011, 12:34 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

How do you say ... femur in Zulu? by Grif on May 12 2011, 12:35 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Another institution going down the drain I am shocked that one od the country's leading learning centres can operate with an apartheid system. One teaches the minds of the students, not their skin colour. How disgusting and what a shame for the university's so called . .more intellectuals. . .less by Shocked on May 12 2011, 12:36 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Very sober presentation The author is making very interesting observations. We deserve some answers from UCT, maybe they have an explanation. May I say, however, that the apartheid junta's exclusion of black people was not as transparent as the one he explains above, where . .more Africans had to apply to a white minister to study in a white university. The exclusion was more sophisticated. Many African children passed their matric through the old EE symbol, which made it impossible for them enter both Technikons and Universities. They were also not allowed to repeat matric. In this way the amaBhunu controlled the intellectual development of the African people and subjected them to perpetual poverty. We've seen how the African child excels in former model C schools. If it were simple, these children would be treated as whites, but they are a drop in the ocean. It would be difficult to encourage the entry of more Africans in universities except through the system that UCT designed, but UCT should consider treating white learners (if any) who attend township schools, as Africans, because the damage of apartheid will take many years to undo, particularly if we still have people like Helen Zille and the DA who have reintroduced separate development. UCT should continue until the Western Cape has a government that improves the living conditions of Africans. . .less by Guluva on May 12 2011, 12:37 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Guluva on May 12 2011, 12:37 Please explain to me exactly what an African is suppose to be. Is it someone born in Africa? Or is it a black African? If you choose the last option, then you should apply to the "Verwoerd School of Racial Seperation" do to your PHD. The present junta . .more only created new apartheid laws, such as AA and BEE, and it not creating the wealth needed in this country, but only for a selected few, such as "Blimp" Zuma. Maybe the whole of South Africa should get a government like the Western Cape, to improve the living conditions of all SA citizens, and not only for their own pockets like the present junta. . .less by "hACKER" on May 12 2011, 13:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Blatant admission of racial differences in intelligence Let's say Tokyo Sexwale's kids attend a very exclusive private school. They will also receive this racist advantage of about 30% from UCT's PC Nazi's. This clearly indicates that the UCT views also Sexwale's children as genetically disadvantaged. J . .more Phillippe Rushton's assertion that Sub-Saharan Africans' intelligence quotient is about 70 as compared to Westerners' 100, looks like it's being taken seriously by UCT (or is that "seriaasly"?) . .less by Stoutgat on May 12 2011, 13:36 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

disadvantage is the criterion The UCT policy is wrong because it misreads the provisions of section 9 of the Bill of Rights - the equality clause. The idea is to promote the achievement of equality. Measures designed to redress disadvantage suffered by individuals and groups are . .more allowed. Not all Blacks, Africans, Coloureds and Indians are disadvantaged in any way relevant to admission criteria. Not all Whites are so advantaged. The upwardly mobile Africans coming through the system and their parents reject and resent the notion that they should be regarded as disadvantaged and therefore entitled to some form of special treatment. They want to succeed on merit. Good for them. Good for society too. Catch a wake up UCT. . .less by Paul Hoffman on May 12 2011, 14:06 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

18 years on... The admission policies of our universities are resulting in our higher education institutions becoming glorified high schools. If people need additional education before reaching the required university entrance point system criteria there should be a . .more concerted effort to provide intermediate training prior to university and after high school to develop the necessary skills to participate on an equal footing academically else we perpetuate stereotypes . .less by observer on May 12 2011, 14:08 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Quotas James you need to be congratulated. It is a very well reasoned article and I think it is quite unreasonable to expect suggestions from you on how the alleged problem is to be solved. A thing I miss about these quotas is that all whites are somehow lumped . .more together in one group. More than fifty percent of the whites in this country are Afrikaners. Will UCT reserve more than fifty percent of its white quota for us Boertjies ? Never in your life. . .less by Piet Swanepoel on May 12 2011, 14:13 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

People are blinded by hatred Most people here are talking nonsense. It's not always the bright kid who becomes a better professional. Kids who fail along the way (irrespective of race) tend to do better as adults and professionals. The truth is most parents especially the . .more rich will get their children admitted at universities inspite of matric results. You cannot seriously say George W Bush was the brightest kid but he went to Harvard. Before you put on your racial lenses look at the reality of life. . .less by Sipho on May 12 2011, 14:28 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

AhYes,effectiveCadrePolicy@UCT.... Cde Lindiwe SISULU wrote, inter alia:- "Dr(?) NGOBENI is a brilliant legal brain & I have no reason to question his integrity". Well, well, well, & this after NGOBENI's delinquency as an attorney in USA & then his exit as Dep Registrar at UCT in SA under . .more a cloud following an internal disciplinary process. Would this be criminal negligence or criminal ignorance, then, on the minister's part? - (or just evidence of criminal arrogance)? The only "brilliance" in evidence to the public that I have seen so far in this scam, has been the players' ready mendacity & obfuscation attempts. One can only question what dividend the SA taxpayer & SA nation reaps from such folk being carefully & deliberately recruited into important & high offices of State (or any office of State)? This is giving "cadre deployment/redeployment" more than a negative image... not to mention "the questionable integrity" it implies on the SA government. QUESTION:- Why do the VC & fellows at UCT this proud & excellent institution to be persistently politicaly (criminally ?) subverted. Long term, what's in it for UCT as a respected seat of SA learning & it's integrity in the halls of global academia ? Consultant - C T O Chikurubi Tertiary Options . .less by John Austin on May 12 2011, 14:32 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

I remember, supporters of the then ANC were given the bursaries. "Students would be selected on merit, although special criteria would be used to identify disadvantaged students with potential, and they would be given extra assistance to help them succeed." Rubbish, because both my parents were employed at the time, . .more trying to support a huge family, this was the reason that was held against me.... . .less by PDI on May 12 2011, 14:55 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

ThatZANUmodelAGAIN....oh-me-miserum..... The ANCpf, like their zany ZANU mentors, believe in & action a "total strategy" post liberation. The subversion of the tertiary education system is but another string to that strategicbow. There is nothing new in what's happening at UCT . .more that hasn't been trialled in Zimbabwe first, discussed by the comrades regional cabal, found to be excellent, then rammed down the region's throat. Example, a UCZ (UCR) degree used to be well respected; many of the Harare (Salisbury) faculties were classed among the regional best - including SA. These days, many of that generation of UCZ graduates are at pains to point out "when" they graduated (lest their qualification validity be questioned alongside current saleable value of a similar degree from the very same UCZ. When academics & bureacrats get appointed only after ruling party Politbureau approval (& regardless of merit [or even in spite of the lack thereof]), the end result will be a UCT on all fours with UCZ & her partisan clones in number all over Zim. Oh well, aluta continua, ne ? Head maFundisi : 1986-1988 ChikurubiDetainees'College . .less by John Austin on May 12 2011, 15:10 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

I am Boer. I not clevir I think I moron. Only 28 years and I make it to fong kong afrikaans univesiteit. oupa tell me Iam special nut case kinder. I not think jy is dom nie maar ek is a poepol. ek hou DA met my alle wit gat. wat se hy toe help my anti zille met daardie bantoe . .more meisie van kwaZulu Natal toe help....help....help....toe...toe...toe.... viva wit DA ...toe . .less by Mute Fool- dhubhula ibhunu on May 12 2011, 15:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Mute Fool-dhubhula ibhunu Old doctrine of Lenin - keep on repeating a lie and eventually even the liar would believe it - Dr Pieter Mulder obtained his doctorate at the University of Wisconsin, Madison (USA) in 1981 in International Communication and not in Afrikaans by Wiseman on May 12 2011, 15:44 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Have your say @ Everyone, if you are in interested in commenting more comprehensively on issues such as this one visit our site: www.wecandobetter.co.za , we look forward to hearing from you. by Stanley Black on May 12 2011, 15:46 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Thanks to my brother He helped me C** up with that clevir comidee above. He also veri clevir, I think, cause mummy say he also speshil. by Mute Fool- dhubhula ibhunu on May 12 2011, 15:47 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Why Wait, if mummy say I special, why I always hear her tell friends that her son she is the idiot. No, mummy, why you doing this thing, it cant be that I am idiot, can it? oh no, for so long I think I am special, but now I see I am just stupid boy with . .more no matric. . .less by Mute Fool- dhubhula ibhunu on May 12 2011, 15:49 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@everyone It's quite disconcerting that the tone of most responses are dilly dallying around the issue and the question the article raises but fails to answer. Disingenous UCT's intent might appear to be, but in passing judgment on them we must at the same time . .more show them how to correct their ill-conceived policy. It is no use to come up with a plausibly researched article that does not educate its readership. Judging by some of the comments you would be loath to think that passing racists remarks and making generalized statements about the intellectual capacity of so-called non-whites is in itself a victory for white superiority complex. Instead of using this space to put it to good use, you degenerate to the level of the very people you are mocking. This article promotes exclusion of other races and is extremely territorial wanting to keep UCT exclusively white as possible. It cannot be because the times they are a changing and so should we. . .less by Tony on May 12 2011, 16:07 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Hey Mute Fool... Yawn! by Same Same on May 12 2011, 16:14 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Admissions Debate on www.uct.ac.za I would suggest that people read the UCT Admissions Policy Debate (follow the link on the top left hand panel of UCT's home page). Dr Max Price and Dr Neville Alexander both put forward opposing points of view, and in my opinion, both views have merit. . .more There is no easy answer because the reality is that the majority of black candidates are still disadvantaged when it comes to university admission due to poor schooling, and that needs to be redressed in the short term if we are to avoid exacerbating the social problems we are facing now. Remember that black students write exactly the same examinations and complete the same assignments as all the other students, therefore a black graduate is no less qualified than a graduate of any other race. Also, the lower admission points for black students does not mean that they are less intelligent - it is to compensate for the differences in quality of education of a candidate coming from a poor school as opposed to a candidate from a model C or private school. Thus a black candidate coming from a poor school and achieving 36 admission points is seen as the equivalent of a white candidate from a model C / private school achieving 47 points because the black candidate would have had to put in as much effort as the white student to achieve those points in the same matriculation exams. . .less by Romi on May 12 2011, 17:02 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

quotas for blacks = living proof that whites have a higher "EYEQUE" Only those who can't compete on a level playing field need to have a special hand-up, nuh? by Infowars on May 12 2011, 18:46 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

UCT run by spineless white "progressives" An anti-white black is understandable. An anti-white white is beneath contempt. by Infowars on May 12 2011, 19:00 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

UCT on the skids? Until now, UCT has regularly been the top African university on all the international league tables. ( UKZN used to be one of the top four but, under His Excellency, the Most Venerable and Sublime Professor Doctor Extraordinarius Malegapuru William . .more Makgoba, it has been sliding rapidly into the oblivion of "African Scholarship". Does UCT really want to follow UKZN, and all the other former universities of Africa (who remembers Makerere these days?) into oblivion? Africa is left with half a dozen universities (at most) of some international standing (all of them in South Africa, and all of them "formerly advantaged" universities). UCT's capitulation to the demands of the ANC -- itself in its death throes -- is beyond craven. It's criminal. . .less by Sam van den Berg on May 12 2011, 20:16 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

not realistic ur analysis is incorrect and unsound not even founded u a biter idividual and racist at heart u don't consider the difficult secmstances that black leaners a facing 2dAY u only debate as a racist at best. by ozzy on May 12 2011, 20:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Hypocricy Thanks for a very good article. You have very nicely exposed the hypocricy at UCT but South African society is riddled with hypocricy. I think money has a lot to do with it. Speaking the truth has its financial disadvantages. In the old days you could be . .more more courageous in speaking the truth. If things got to hot you could leave the country. Today this option is still there but you may be less welcome elsewhere, at least until a new political correctness emerges. . .less by Patrick on May 12 2011, 22:33 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Romi You are a complete twit, just like your fellow liberal carpetbaggers. You make sweeping statements as though they are proven fact. The point that has been made, which seems to be ignored by you, is that the policy is applied purely on skin . .more colour, and has nothing to do with what school you went to. Therefore, making assumptions that the black scholar always attends the under-performing school, whilst the white scholar always comes from an outstanding privilaged private school, is pure twaddle. Oh, and please do some reading of material that you might find distasteful to a liberal like yourself. Start with The Bell Curve, and move on to The Wealth Of Nations. Facts are facts, and no amount of wishy washy bleeding heart liberal fantasy will change that. . .less by B.E.N on May 12 2011, 23:06 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Hit UCT where it hurts UCT alumni, and others, should simply withhold all financial contributions to UCT until the university changes its blatantly racial admissions policy, which negates the principle of academic excellence as the sole criterion for admission and is, moreover, . .more insulting to genuine black students. . .less by Whitefoord on May 12 2011, 23:26 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Racially biased admissions criteria. James Myburgh has done us a service by presentation of his excellent article. It never fails to irritate me when people use the pretext of "correcting the imbalances of the past" when they feel the need to justify racist policies. They never . .more stop to explain HOW their racist policies will "correct" these so-called "imbalances", nor do they reflect on how these racist policies will damage the present and the future. Another irritating assertion is that it is imperative that the participants in every sphere of activity, and especially in the professions, be representative of the demographics of the population at large. The Nazis used this sentiment in their propaganda against the Jews who were preeminent in the professions. The ANC uses it to justify the blatantly racist provisions of its unconstitutional Employment Equity Act. Tony asks contributors to give practical solutions to addressing the problem of increasing the proportion of black doctors in the country. The introduction of racially biased admissions criteria for universities seems to me to be the worst solution possible, and I share the negative sentiments expressed by others with regard to this practice at UCT. Maybe it's to build new medical schools in historically disadvantaged universities? . .less by mpho on May 13 2011, 00:08 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

points Sorry,I am not aware of any university in the united kingdom or elsewhere in Europe where applicants are given a unfair points advantage because the are a different race.Has the Mandela era not been with us for more about 20 years?Surely it is unfair to . .more punish young white students on a point basis for something that they had nothing to do with?Should academic performance and not race be the criteria of selection?What has happened to the rainbow nation? . .less by derikmare on May 13 2011, 00:22 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

University grades Patrick - if South African society and university grades were in fact governed by "money" - how is it that Julius Malema does not have a a PHD in what ever discipline he chose??? by Retired teacher on May 13 2011, 03:19 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Leveling the Playing Field... I'm surprised that none of the people that have commented here, have even taken the time to consider the massive gap in the education standards provided at private schools to public schools...a Hilton matric verse a Soweto High matric...why throw stones . .more when you can help level out the playing field....? Are we so racist that we cannot even give other opportunities?...hmmm...we chose to 'racialise' intelligence...sad. . .less by Rainbow Nation on May 13 2011, 04:21 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Leveling the Playing Field ...having never been a Malema supporter....these comments have helped me and others realize that there can be no compromise...Our society is so polarized that even the people that comment here (people with access to computers - opportunities) can't even . .more for moment think of the many other that can't voice their thoughts here... . .less by Rainbow Nation on May 13 2011, 04:25 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Viva Steve Biko Remember Steve Biko...if you have no memory and only contempt for his memory...then Malema is what you deserve...Let save our nation from these racists (all colours)...let's look for solutions that level the grounds - let's allow others to drink from the . .more fountain that our for-bearers (Rhodes etc) also drank from...20 years has not even healed our feelings of indifference towards each other - why should it solve our deepest problems?....viva Steve Biko - you said this would happen..... . .less by Rainbow Nation on May 13 2011, 04:32 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Racial quotas at universities Shame on respondents both black and white racists - you dont belong on this planet - if you want to cling to your sub zero I* mentality then listen -- there is only one race of people -the human race - come to the race course or go to Kyalami if you want . .more to see more races - sies and shame on you. Thank goodness u are not the rector of my university. . .less by Peppy on May 13 2011, 04:59 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

The world is your playground. Only if you're smart! Black people are here to stay and rule. If you don't like it start checking the world map for your next destination. The dream of an exclusive good like for minorities was underwritten by apartheid, unfortunately for them apartheid is gone. An African . .more majority government has no responsibility to honour a racially exclusive better life underwritten by racially exclusive government. If you didn't make the most of apartheid benefits, you can't blame the majority government for trying to accommodate everyone. Capable people never expect or demand special treatment, they always rise to the top by their own sweat. It's a well known fact that most of the whingers in these blogs are stark here, they'll never make it anywhere in the world. The smart ones are long gone or they've found a niche for themselves in this multiracial country. People who are really suffering in this country do not whinge as much as the low capacity apartheid beneficiaries. I wish the majority government should looking over its shoulder and ruthlessly implement its policies, as long as they operate within the constitution. There's absolutely no need to have a special dispensation for minorities. . .less by Sipho on May 13 2011, 08:53 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Rainbow Nation I, like you, seem to be one of the few people to look at both sides of the issue. I agree with Dr Neville Alexander that using race as a proxy for disadvantage is re-racialising post-apartheid society. However, I also see merit in Dr Max Price's point of . .more view - there is no easy solution. This year my white child was granted an entrance scholarship by UCT to study engineering. She has two cousins studying medicine at UCT, and one in the Humanities faculty. No, we are not ANC supporters. The black student representation at UCT is in the region of 50%. My daughter tells me that the student achieving the highest marks in engineering physics (96%) in her faculty is black. My issue is with people who believe that blacks are intellectually inferior ("genetically disadvantaged"), when in fact most have been disadvantaged by an inferior schooling system and poor social circumstances. . .less by Romi on May 13 2011, 09:28 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Racism Multiplied Under apartheid, white interns got a certain pay, Indians ans "Coloureds" got 80% of the white pay, and the "Bantu" intern got 60%. They all had the same level of qualification.The justification for this discrimination was that the whites had a higher . .more standard of living !!! Think aboput that. There is only one race - the human race. If you introduce or maintain the apartheid categories you are perpetuating racism. For surely the.black students from affluent schools have a big advantage over other black students from the less affluent township schools. Quota systems only work when they are based on social criteria - for example, the "currently disadvantaged" or on a geographic basis. The best students HAVE to be supported whatever racist category they belong to. What is in their heart is more important than their skin colour. . .less by Mafirofiro on May 13 2011, 10:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Romi@Rainbow@ZANUmodels... ...there is nothing wrong with your well meaning humanist tree-hugging sentiment. BUT, you glibly (naively?) overlook the fact that the people doing all the poiliticaly inspired social engineering in SA today, do so with a different & . .more hidden agenda. It is a TOTAL strategy that is about absolute POWER, and INDEFINITELY so. The control of all levers of civil administration, law, order, & information, are all part of that strategy. The education system is part of that blueprint too - including the tertiary institutions - ESPECIALLY them. Within many of those internal halls of SA academia they found support during the hondo years against the previous racist totalitarian government. You can be sure they are not going to want the same academic implements of free-thinking to get in the way of their strategy NOW. A dumbed-down nation is easier to control - & easier to feed it what to think. Why r so many erstwhile losers, fakesters, fraudsters, being deployed into driving the new SA (Dr? Paul NGOBENI is one among too many). The late Dr Herbert USHEWOKUNZE (Zim Min of Health, Transport, CIO) now in heroes acre was in fact a struck-off medical Dr & part of ZANU's elite criminocracy. I wouldn't wish to be treated by the like of him - would YOU ? Q. Where do the elite of Zim send their kids to UNI ? A. UCZ (wrong). . .less by John Austin on May 13 2011, 12:00 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Social engineering sent you to dark Africa. @John Austin - you're projecting a very strong God complex. By virtue of being white, you think you're superior and independent. Unfortunately there's no cure for racial hatred. Me thinks people like deserve to be ignored. by Sipho on May 13 2011, 14:23 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Sipho....not really.... ....just a dry cynicism truthfully informed by the facts of my own life & experience in Africa (& abroad). The race, class, religious, etc, cards are easy to play in whipping-up mass support & hysteria. BUT, its all about power & money at . .more the end of the day. In peasant-type semi literate third-world environs it is easier, blunter, & more brutally applied (the basic principles tho' are little changed). The halls of academia have been the breeding grounds & recruitment pond for both good & evil ends over the ages. Just look at where the ZANU elite "invest" their stolen loot (stolen from their own people, too). Observe where they educate their own offspring. Note what style of living, transport, & shopping they gravitate towards..... are they all, or any, or just ONE of them, re-investing in the Zimbabwe nation or her people ? Then look at the ANCpf elite & their accolytes - notice any difference ? There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, ne ? Pray our regions' collective zizo are opened wide before its too late, ne ? I do not write from racial hatred (that is your own projection, and I leave you to deal with it within yourself). I do write from experience & truth.... and a desire to tell the truth with boldness where others feel silenced by false guilt imposed by dishonest political correctness. . .less by John Austin on May 13 2011, 15:40 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Sipho and @Romi and @Rainbow Nation Sipho says : "There's absolutely no need to have a special dispensation for minorities." Now that is spot on! But what UCT is doing is running a special dispensation discriminating in favour of the racial majority. The minorities are penalised . .more on grounds of the colour of their skins. Romi tels us of the excellent black student in her daughter's faculty : "My daughter tells me that the student achieving the highest marks in engineering physics (96%) in her faculty is black." This is wonderful, and not even surprising; one would expect there to be brilliant black students. His matric marks were probably up to standard too, and he got in fair and square without the special dispensation for blacks afforded by UCT. And to Rainbow Nation, nobody is denying anybody else the opportunity to study at University, all we are saying is that the entry field should be level and nobody be advantaged or disadvantaged on grounds of skin colour. . .less by Joe Soap on May 13 2011, 16:58 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Rainbow Nation When running the 100 metres race, should blacks be given a head start of a few metres to "level the playing field" because they were not as well nourished in childhood as whites were, and could not afford the best training facilities as whites . .more could? And should we not do this kind of thing for everybody who suffered disadvantage? Why only look at race? I know of people who, because of their parents' poverty, left school before matric, and through work and private study got their degrees and professional qualifications and had successful careers. No one bothered to "level the playing field" for them. It seems life was not meant to be a "level playing field"! . .less by Joe Soap on May 13 2011, 17:12 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Link for UCT debate MP3 Here's the correct link - other link is now dead: http://www.uct.ac.za/downloads/uct.ac.za/news/multimedia/audio/admissionsdebate020910_sm.mp3 by Dave Martin on May 13 2011, 17:58 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@JoeSoap@100mts...handicap-qualification... ...should be given to white Africans; ask any Kenyan. The English should be given a handicap on Curling or Caber Tossing; ask any Scot. Presumably, Nigerians need no handical for fraudulent activity (although I understand some . .more of the east europeans can teach them a trick or two). So ja, good & bad - we've all got them, ne ? The human races generally ALL excell at some things & can be pretty useless at others. It doesn't make any of them better, worse, superior, inferior - just differently gifted. It is in totally open co-operation & on fully level playing fields of all human affairs & endeavour that the best can be nurtured out of all for the good of all, ne. Anyone tinkering with established levelling measures on race, gender, religion, politics, etcetera, grounds does so without an equality agenda in mind. Chikurubi Equality Consultant . .less by John Austin on May 13 2011, 20:09 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Human race Me GranDa was a "wit ou". Me Nan was a light skinned "Bruin Aunty", So me dad was "classified" as a "wit ou" Then me Da married a light skinned portugeuse woman and had me. I passed the pencil test.Pure white according to them!! Then i married a . .more Charou woman of cane cutter ancestory, We had two beatifull daughters wich should be classified "other" according to Hitlers plan and the pencil test But no they are pure white beauties. Long straight black hair and olive skin!! My Family has been living here since the white man and the bantu took over the land from Xhoi San howcome my daughters now have to suffer for all this??? This is why i have removed my daughters from all this nonsence and have busted my back to educate them in a real democratic country. God bless Afrika she really needs your help to get rid of racism> . .less by Living in Excile on May 14 2011, 01:20 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Sipho Capable people never expect or demand special treatment, they always rise to the top by their own sweat. There's absolutely no need to have a special dispensation for minorities. True also for majorities, so why the need for BEE etc. and . .more special privileges for us blacks, it is an insult to us nation . .less by Mother Africa on May 14 2011, 18:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

BLACK 96 % SHE MUST BE ON HER OWN , THE REST ARE STUPID . beeee, bbbeeee, AA against the minority white race in SA , no wonder after a trillion blacks you would expect that wouldnt you . IESH . ALL the other race groups , EG : WHITES , COLOUREDS . .more ,INDIAN People have to have a higher % than the stupid people who get in with such a VERY LOW % . So after a trillion b.lacks go through the system the % ratio to other races is a joke . So one black Einstein out of a trillion and all of a sudden yippee they have done it at last ha hja ha . Remember , the anc aparthied system made sure white , coloured and Indian people are turned AWAY , THEY HAVE THE WRONG SKIN COLOUR . SO , FEEL FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO COULDN'T GO TO UNIVERSITY BECAUSE THEY AREN'T BLACK . APARTHEID IS BACK IN SA . . .less by jOE BLOG on May 15 2011, 00:04 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Infowars How could you possibly declare UCT is run by "spineless white "progressives""? Progressives are those who have moved on and eschew racism in all its manifestations, e.g. also that kind of racism now manifest at UCT. The whites . .more running UCT are spineless cowards, and at best ANC apologists; their instinct is to appease the ANC in all its racist excesses and they use their intellect and specious sophistry to justify their cowardice. That way they avoid the inconvenience of having to take on the new racist establishment for the ideal of a non-racist society. . .less by Soapy Joe on May 15 2011, 12:33 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Theory v Practical Just over 2 years ago I visited the JHB Hospital Dental Unit, for treatment. Being a training hospital, we were treated by student doctors. After a few visits I noticed that there were fewer patients and doctors and was told that the professors had . .more found that most were not able to perform the various tasks. However as was pointed out to me, in theory they were okay but putting what they know into practice was the problem. And that, one and all, is the crux of the matter, there are those who have amazing memories (when it suits them) and do well in theory but in practice they fall down hopelessly but still pass, bringing down the standards. I would rather be treated by a dentist who has excellent practical know-how and average theory. . .less by Open Minded on May 15 2011, 13:23 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Whose truth is it? @John Austin as long as you hold the view that your truth is the only truth we're both stark. @ Joe Soap if you were to write exams in your second language and have your scripts marked by a first language person, you'd probably not do as well as you . .more would if you were writing in your first language. So your call for levelling the playing field is not entirely honest. If you suspend your emotions and go back in history you'd find that people who participated in the 2nd world, had a special dispensation to enter university. Again kids from influential (rich) families will always get to university irrespective of their school grades. . .less by Sipho on May 19 2011, 09:28 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

of reflections after retiring As a retired " intellectual",,I have to admit that we thought leaders often disappear up our own self- important apertures and totally lose sight of simple truths,this policy although well intended is just plain racist and the myopic ,over- involved . .more intellectual rationale for it fails at a commonsense level . .less by Pedro on May 19 2011, 12:37 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Where's wisdom of King Solomon The reality of life is that if you're not flexible you stand to lose everything in the end. I can guarantee you that. Most African countries have been where we are, where nationalists try to accommodate everyone and they are constantly undermined to an . .more extent that they give up on reconciliation. Everyone ends up a loser. . .less by Sipho on May 20 2011, 13:28 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Sipho and Solly You have a point about all suffering when new African states fail,but you miss the point that nationalists ,by definition,don't try to accommodate everyone. When nationalist leaders say whites are criminals and should be treated as such,and they . .more leave ,you say they didn't want to contribute.If they stay and object to nationalist invective,you say they are counter revolutionary . .less by Pedro on May 21 2011, 08:25 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Romi I agree with you , Its is not apartheid in reverse as some of the people view it. I am an African Medical Student doing fourth year currently , we don't get special treatment because we are black all our examinations are standard whether you are black , . .more white or Indian. Even if sometimes during your clinical examination your examiner second guess you because of the color of you skin you have to study extra hard at the end of the day it improves your medical knowledge. Ladies and gentlemen it is hard being a student coming from a disadvantage back ground trust me. Sadly you find people taking a good topics that can be discussed maturely to shape the future of our country and resort to name call and so forth.For all those people who say that the system is unfair their should come up with better strategy to assist those students who are coming from disadvantage schools. I personally went to a disadvantaged skul 300 students in my class ,3 students per desk ,under qualified teachers, my point is thing are not what their seem to be , we can not use the same criteria to admit all students. Why? because it will not address the inequalities of the past.All we are asking for is to be given a chance! . .less by Nombuso@MediSkul on June 15 2011, 18:42 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Racial introspection being taught/forced Forget the quantity vs quality debate! I'm a masters student at UCT in the commerce faculty. We have a visiting professor who is brilliant in his field but has unfortunately delved into racial grey-areas that can only be described as hurtful and . .more detrimental to the well being of its students. The racial quota system is one thing but the affect that it has on the minds of its lecturers and students needs also to be considered. No-one wants to feel a victim of racism but government policy is forcing it on our lecturers and students. . .less by Anonymous on June 18 2011, 11:52 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

wealth versus new money everybody has their own views on these issues and yet fails to listen. Carry on shouting and being defensive or insult one another but you're going nowhere slowly. Be sensitive to the idea that our past sins play a pivotal role in this situation and some . .more people still benefit from being wealthy and are complaining about others just trying to get rich. Just compromise and stop the greed and all Its sins i say . .less by anonymous on March 14 2012, 11:07 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

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