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The Democratic Alliance: Liberal or nothing

RW Johnson
03 December 2012

RW Johnson says short term compromise will lead to long term disaster for party

The Democratic Alliance (DA) is a unique opposition party in Africa: white- led, multi-racial and steadily gaining. From a base of 1.7% in the 1994 parliamentary election, it improved its position to 16.7% in 2009, and in 2011's local elections took nearly a quarter of the vote.

In 2006, the DA won the city of Cape Town, and it has controlled the Western Cape since 2009. Under its governance, the province has consistently outperformed the national economy and maintained strong labour figures, despite large inflows from both the Eastern and the Northern Cape. It has the most successful schools, with the highest matric pass rates. The health sector has seen a dramatic reduction in TB cases. The DA has proven itself as a governing party. Its brand is synonymous with good governance and the benefits that it brings.

The DA is the lineal descendant of the Progressive Party (PP), formed in 1959. Representing the liberal strand within South African political life, it has grown by a process of amalgamation and coalition building that has allowed it to escape repeatedly from the ethnic ghettoes in which it seemed condemned to languish. When the PP was first formed it was over-dependent on a wealthy fringe of white (and sometimes Jewish) English-speakers. It seemed impossible that it would ever break into the Afrikaans electorate or the ranks of poorer whites.

Come 1994 and South Africa's first democratic elections, the party was in a more favourable position than any other in the apartheid parliament. It was accustomed to an opposition role and its steadfast history of opposition to apartheid gave it moral currency. By 1999 it had won over the bulk of the white vote, including the large majority of Afrikaners-a stunning reversal of all previous history. The party was criticised for being too white and grave doubts were expressed about its ability to garner black votes. Over the subsequent decade, however, it won over many African, Indian and Coloured (mixed-race) votes. These groups now constitute almost half of its support base.

Many, including its leader, Helen Zille, pin the hopes of the party's progress on its willingness to elect a black leader in future. However, under white leaders, the DA's support has multiplied 14-fold and undergone a complete ethnic transformation since 1994-during which time many parties with black leaders have failed. The need for black leadership may not be as essential as some in the DA sense.

Other factors explain opposition success in South Africa. In 1999, its leader at the time, Tony Leon, catapulted the DA into the role of the official opposition with his "fight back" campaign. Mr Leon's opposition to the African National Congress (ANC) was one of principled and tough-minded liberalism. This chimed well with the feelings of many South Africans of all races who felt that what they needed most in the new dispensation was simply a level playing field. He gave strong personal leadership to this image as a high-profile parliamentary leader.

Ms Zille has strengthened the DA with clean and efficient rule of Cape Town and the Western Cape, but she has abandoned a national role. She does not sit in parliament, seeming more concerned to be a Cape provincial politician; she has shifted the party's policies so that the DA no longer looks as liberal as it used to. It espouses affirmative action and black economic empowerment (BEE), appearing to be an ANC- lite in many eyes. It still benefits from the position Mr Leon won for it: as the ANC decays it is the obvious alternative.

The DA's hopes of power are largely a matter of waiting for the ANC to fail. This is happening faster than might have been expected. The thought was that the ANC's tenure might be the same as Afrikaner nationalism's 46 years in power. But the ANC's corruption, factionalism and incompetence are so flagrant that few expect it to last that long. The DA's hopes are proportional to ANC failings.

The modern ANC is essentially a rural party. The biggest delegations at its December 2012 conference will come from the rural heartlands-the KwaZulu- Natal, Eastern Cape and Limpopo provinces. Gauteng is South Africa's most populous and urban province and home to the economic capital of Johannesburg. But it is only the ANC's fourth-biggest province by membership, coming just ahead of rural Mpumalanga.

Even in 1994 it was evident that the racial cleavage in electoral politics was weakest in Gauteng, where the bulk of the black middle class lives. Gauteng has become the centre of opposition to Jacob Zuma's leadership. The ANC is more at home in the Zululand idyll of Nkandla, where Mr Zuma can happily herd his cattle and pamper his wives in the fashion of a Zulu chief, than in the bustle of modern, dynamic Johannesburg.

South Africa is a country of five big cities: what happens there determines its future. By 2011 the DA had entrenched itself in Cape Town, and did well enough in Johannesburg, Pretoria and Port Elizabeth for DA strategists to talk of winning all three in 2014. A possible future is one in which the ANC loses all major cities except Durban and becomes dependent on its vast rural bases, maintained by ceding power to traditionalists - a sorry and terminal plight for a modern African nationalist party.

The DA has mapped out its narrative of future success. Ms Zille repeatedly predicts that the DA, led by a black leader, will take national power by 2019. Although the DA indignantly rejects the ANC's accusation that it is a "white party", the party's old white liberal core and liberal Protestant ethic are still crucial to its success. This is, after all, the source of its emphasis on clean and efficient government. As political analyst Aubrey Matshiqi insists, white South Africa may have lost its political dominance but it still has a cultural majority. Whites built the country's dominant institutions, which still function according to their rules or incur scathing criticism when they do not. The DA swims as a natural insider in that sea where the ANC still feels awkward and unaccustomed.

The DA holds out for a future in which its backing from Coloured people in the Western Cape enables it to complete a clean sweep there and push into the Northern Cape, and where a growing group of African voters enable it to win city after city. The awesome prospect, which the ANC cannot bear to contemplate, is that of a white-led (or at least white-core) party gradually overthrowing the ANC and thus symbolically- and by popular consent-reversing the cause of "liberation".

Is the DA hoping to do the sociologically impossible? It has successfully transformed itself from a party of genteel white English-speakers into a party representing all racial minorities. It reigns unchallenged right across Mitchell's Plain in Cape Town, home of the Coloured working class; in Chatsworth, the equivalent Indian area in Durban; as well as among poor white Afrikaners in Brakpan, Krugersdorp and Port Shepstone. Among the more affluent whites of Constantia, Sandton and Durban North, its support reaches 90-100%, figures previously seen in "managed" elections or in the words of the party chairman, James Selfe, "East European levels". But can one graft onto that structure a growing African group?

It is an ambitious quest. South Africa's racial fault-lines are so strong that it is difficult for civil society or political parties to ignore them. Either such institutions fail to achieve coherence or tip the scales towards one group.

The ANC set out to be that sort of catch-all party, to assemble a completely multi-racial constituency. It failed in large part because its "Africanist" elements alienated the minorities. Long before it is within sight of power, the DA must become a predominantly African party; and South Africa has no record of a predominant- ly African party which long retains the support of the racial minorities. The question it will have to face is how to do so without losing minority support by pandering to race.

The model has to come from the churches. The biggest churches in South Africa-the Zionists and Pentecostals-are not an example for they are 100% African. The Dutch Reformed Church (DRC), the Catholics and the Anglicans all adhere to a striking "colonial" model. The DRC is rigidly Calvinist-were it to stray from that it would lose currency with its international Calvinists. The Catholics similarly depend on papal authority and the Anglicans on Canterbury. These external dependencies enable the churches to absorb vast African memberships without having to cede ground to traditional beliefs about polygamy, ancestor worship and so on. If these beliefs were indulged, these churches would lose their international Christian recognition, their multi-racial followings and ultimately their identities; a fate suffered by some denominations.

If the DA wishes to remain a party trusted by minorities it will have to entrench its liberal Protestant ethic as powerfully as the DRC has entrenched Calvinism. It will be a difficult task to accomplish while appealing to the African majority. But anything less will lead to its collapse in the same way that the Congress of the People has done.

The temptation, already visible, is for the DA to embrace threats to its liberal core-affirmative action, BEE and so on. But sociological models show short-term accommodation leads to long-term disaster. The hard lesson is that the DA will do better to stick to its principles and wait for the game to come its way.

This article first appeared in the latest edition of Africa in Fact, the journal of Good Governance Africa.

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Comments

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 responses to this article

The pool of voters is the same for DA and ANC
The quandary for the DA is: How do you absorb those voters and leaders who at present comprise the ANC without becoming universally corrupt as the ANC has become? What is going to make someone who was an ANC supporter , cadre or leader suddenly become . .more

by Guy Mullins on December 03 2012, 13:30
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DA the only Hope ?
I agree, the liberal, logical, pragmatic and honest way should prevail; but the other dynamic is that the game is being played on African soil. So those terms of reference are imported and yet to be injested; currently "kraal logic" etc are the rules. . .more

by The Clever Native on December 03 2012, 13:31
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DA Liberal or Nothing - RW Johnson
The Black Middle Class consists of educated, modern-world citizens, as do the majority of the minorities. The vast majority of the rural black citizens are largely uneducated 'Late Iron-Age' culture members. All citizens of both groups want the material . .more

by Helen Maryon on December 03 2012, 14:15
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The DA will lose its Cape Coloured and Cape Liberal Base
If it continues to ignore reality and co-operate with ANC racism as it is presently doing in the Cape.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 03 2012, 14:30
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Only the DA can Save South Africa!
Only the DA can save SA from the wanton destruction wrought by the vile ANC over the last 18 years - but it better come quick before there is nothing left to save.

by Democrat on December 03 2012, 14:36
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Theory doesn't determine practice
The trouble with academics is they try to fit reality into their theories. In reality, practice must adapt daily to a myriad of subtle influences.
It is obvious Johnson still misses Leon and is reluctant to accept the pragmatism of Zille, who must . .more

by Obs on December 03 2012, 15:04
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Helen Zille is equally wedded to her "Liberal Theories" and her genuine "Struggle Credentials"
@ Obs

by Lyndall Beddy on December 03 2012, 16:09
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I never had to "divorce" myself from any theories.
@ Obs

Because I was never married to any theory in the first place - I thought all the political parties wildly optimistic with their easy solutions to the complexity of the problem.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 03 2012, 16:19
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Spot on @Obs
For those that felt the DA is something of the "old guard club" you obviously have not been around in the DA meetings and gatherings. It has at last won the confidence of the people who boycott it due to comments of the racists on News 24.

It is . .more

by DM on December 03 2012, 16:23
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DA
If the DA should ever come to power - then what ? The same old ANC story. My money is on that.

by Pieter on December 03 2012, 17:37
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The DA is colluding with the ANC against the FF and Agriforum
Using bused in Black Seasonal Workers, who are already a threat to Brown Farm Workers, as instigators.

By 2014 the message will have penetrated - I see neither Afrikaner Farmers nor Rural Coloureds voting for them by then, especially since the DA . .more

by Lyndall Beddy on December 03 2012, 17:39
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DA a winner?
Even if DA wins in 2014 elections, ANC will not accept it. It will be back to armed struggle and guerrilla war. This is the way of Africa. For Zuma and ANC potentates it will be either hold onto the power or go to jail.

by Old_Africa_Hand on December 03 2012, 18:10
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At this rate we will have BOTH Civil Wars back again!
Anglo versus Brit; and Xhosa versus Zulu (who no longer appear to have any seasonal jobs on either mines or farms)

by Lyndall Beddy on December 03 2012, 18:11
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Should be Anglo versus Boer
Sorry!

by Lyndall Beddy on December 03 2012, 18:13
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The Zulu IFP were NOT Pan Africanists
But the Xhosa/Fingo ANC sneered at Buthelezi when he said open borders would cause xenophobic attacks!

Now there are no Zulu seasonal workers - but the workers are Xhosa, Basotu, Zimbabwean and Swazi?

by Lyndall Beddy on December 03 2012, 18:18
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@Beddy
Praise the lord for M&G's' Thought Leader' where one can have respite from the b******t, babblings of the badgering beddy biddy!

by cynical is good on December 03 2012, 18:43
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@ Cynical
Actually I am back on Thoughtleader - they put back my deleted comment, and edited the next one instead of deleting it!

by Lyndall Beddy on December 03 2012, 19:32
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I love to watch
how the liberal dream of those you describe above is exploding in their faces! I love to watch the "clever" liberal English / Jews, wondering "what the Hell is happening??"

I love the future of SA - burned and broken.

I Love to say, . .more

by James on December 03 2012, 19:55
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Vote ANC
They are the best bet for a better South Africa, truly.

by . on December 03 2012, 19:55
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two points
1/. I agree with the comment from . above--- although with the proviso that I sense we shall shortly see another comment labelling . as a fakester.
2/. isn't the M & G 'Thoughtleader" concept an oxymoron?I would suggest that "ThoughtColander" would be . .more

by another . on December 03 2012, 20:30
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Do none of you find the ANC mandate to Mbeki in Sudan peculiar?
Because I do! What else was Mbeki's mandate but to divide off from Arab Sudan an "Apartheid style Homeland" for the Black Southern Sudanese?

In my opinion the DA has all its signals wrong!

by Lyndall Beddy on December 03 2012, 21:19
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What if the ANC intends to protect the Black Homelands?
Yet the DA is not protecting its base of the Brown Homeland, but still pursuing OLD ANC policies?

by Lyndall Beddy on December 03 2012, 21:34
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Has the DA even noticed that there is STILL a Xhosa/Zulu war in KwaZulu Natal?
Which is the OTHER province the ANC did not win in 1994?

Or that, despite all the dramas, the Xhosa/Fingo ANC still has a Zulu President?

by Lyndaall Beddy on December 03 2012, 21:45
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We live in exciting times, indeed
The klepto & asinine cadre's party seems to be fracturing at ever accelerating motion.
Wow, the heady smell of revolution in the air is just overwhelming (or is it counter-revolution?)
Just can't wait for all of those archaic grabbing losers to . .more

by Injala Apera on December 03 2012, 21:56
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Bishop Tutu is campaigning World Wide for a Tibetan "Homeland" in China
Has the DA not noticed that either?

by Lyndall Beddy on December 03 2012, 22:00
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RW Johnson
For RWJ, the above is an unusually poor analysis and projection. There is no proof to be found in the first 95% of his sudden conclusion "sociological models show . . .".
How any can predict a likely outcome without once mentioning the key . .more

by Questor on December 03 2012, 22:30
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Earth to RWJ: Prepare to re-enter the atmosphere 1
For all his in-your-face analysis, RW Johnson does sometimes let wishful thinking get the better of him. As a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, albeit with conservative sensibilities, he does trip over the R-factor (as in race). Just to bring you down to . .more

by Realist on December 03 2012, 23:43
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liberal Protestant ethnic?
So pleased to hear that the DA has at its core a "liberal Protestant ethic." Johnson has seemingly forgotten that the party is an inclusive one religiously -- Helen Suzman, Tony Leon et al were as Protestant as RW Johnson is sensitive to religious . .more

by Judah Benjmain on December 03 2012, 23:56
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Earth to RWJ: Prepare to re-enter the atmosphere 2
4. As the DA's support peaks and then stalls, its leadership will reckon that it needs to tweak its policies in a more African-/collectivist-friendly direction to give it an extra boost to make it into power. Alas, the DA is already starting to make its . .more

by Realist on December 03 2012, 23:56
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The ghost that is RW Johnson
Johnson and his views are a relic of the past. He is personification of Rip van Winkle.

by Themba on December 04 2012, 00:52
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The ANC had as many Jewish Liberals as the Progs/DA
Arthur Chaskalson, Albie Sacks, Ronnie Kasrils,Judge Goldstone - to name just a few!

Pity they did not know that the ANC saw them as White not Semite, and therefore Racist!


by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 02:11
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Israel is itself an "Apartheid Style Homeland"
In 1947 the UN set aside various Homelands to protect minorities against majorities including Israel to protect the Jewish Minority in the Muslim Middle East, and Pakistan and Bangladesh to protect the Muslim Minorities in Hindu India.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 02:34
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The DA seems to think it only needs to "take the cities"
Because the majority live in the cities. But if no-one is concerned about the rural areas - how are the cities going to eat? Or does the DA intend to import all SA's food?

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 03:52
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People may live in cities - but they are emotionally attached to their heartlands.
Not just in SA but everywhere in the world. They DON'T want them ruined by politicians and greedy mining houses! The "country" is where they go for weekends, on holidays, to walk in the bush, swim in the rivers or seas, picnic or eat out or camp.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 04:18
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The DA is so out of touch with the people
That it nearly supported fracking at its annual conference. They are still coasting on "we fought apartheid" ideology.

But the Anglos had not run the country since the Anglo Boer War; and the ANC had never even run a bath! So the collusion . .more

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 04:32
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The First Luxury people buy when they acquire wealth
Is a Holiday Home IN THE COUNTRY which is often also intended as a Retirement Home.

It is also the first thing people sell when they lose their wealth in a depression - which is why second homes are the first market to go up,and the first market . .more

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 05:58
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Nit picking
Not sure that this exactly right "The temptation, already visible, is for the DA to embrace threats to its liberal core-affirmative action, BEE and so on. But sociological models show short-term accommodation leads to long-term disaster. The hard lesson . .more

by Chris Potgieter on December 04 2012, 06:23
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DOT's (or Dorothy?) Back!
And look at his post - it's certainly now clear that he has been "deployed" by the vile ANC as a paid blogger to this site.

But DOT, as the ANC stands NOW, only a blind, moron would vote for the racist, corrupt and terminally incompetent ANC. . .more

by Democrat on December 04 2012, 07:06
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@ Chris Potgieter
My husband put me on Facebook against my wishes - I refuse to use it! I told him I did NOT have the time for Facebook AND writing for NewsTime which I was doing then! And all our family photos got stolen!

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 07:46
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SA was already in recession in 2007
Which was BEFORE problems in Europe and the USA. How do I know?

Because the Plett Property market, which is a second Retirement/Holiday market, was already stagnated.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 07:48
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Replacing the ANC
Bill makes many good points but has not emphasised the central issue. The ANC has become so corrupt and inept that it is now the main obstacle to transformation.
This makes it clear that a coalition is needed to displace the ANC electorally. That . .more

by Mafirofiro on December 04 2012, 08:08
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@Lyndaall
Did you go halaal now?- "never even run a bath' are you suggesting that the ANC are a bunch of stinking savages, thats fighting talk hey.

by Valie on December 04 2012, 08:13
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Leon's one-man cheer squad
Remarkable that the author should hail Tony Leon as the principled liberal who stuck to his position. Who does he think led the Democratic Party into an ill-fated marriage of convenience with Kortbroek van Schalkwyk in pursuit of short-term advantage, . .more

by Izak Smuts on December 04 2012, 08:36
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They had to shower didn't they?
@ Valie

No baths in prison or the bush war - even the SADF had to shower.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 08:36
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The violent route
RWJ is allowed to speculate because no one really knows whether the DA's current growth will continue. That depends entirely on whether significant numbers of ANC members will have the moral courage to leave their tarnished party to join the DA. What RW . .more

by Argus Eye on December 04 2012, 09:07
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Never mind "Reparations for Apartheid"
When do we get to "Reparations for Communism"? (or) "Reparations for the Township War"?

Many Whities lost years off their careers having to fight to keep the communists out, some cracked up and committed suicide, some died.

The less than . .more

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 09:15
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What are the Whities so Guilty about?
That they did NOT kill the locals and thereby virtuously become a "democratic majority" like the Americans and Australians, and New Zealanders and Roman Catholic Colonisers did?

That they did NOT kill the Brown Original People in the Cape like . .more

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 09:31
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Another perspective from Johnson's -1
Much as I admire Johnson as a historian and committed liberal, I cannot agree with his interpretation of the facts.

Firstly, the Progressive Party did break away from the UP over the race issue, but it was not a 100% liberal party. Its Molteno . .more

by Old Prog on December 04 2012, 09:34
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Another perspective from Johnson's - 2
As Johnson points out, the Prog-DA party took root in the "mink and manure belt" - those of more intellectual and strategic orientation and with the biggest stake in the future of the country and spread from some 40,000 votes nationally to about 10 times . .more

by Old Prog on December 04 2012, 09:44
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The Liberal Party did not support one man one vote but a qualified franchise
As did Helen Suzman herself for the first 14 years of her political career - which Tony Leon sneers about in his biography!

The Progressive Party and Anglo American broke away to "one man one Vote" because it was internationally popular - and . .more

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 09:46
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Britain and USA had Black MINORITIES and Russia and China had no Blacks at all
So it was easy for them to preach from afar. Plus American and British Whites always have had this weird idea that Africa was One Tribe and One Culture - which is why they established the disasterous colonies for freed slaves of Sierra leone and Liberia.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 09:51
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Another perspective from Johnson's - 3
Free markets are all very well, but without discretionary income and the sophistication to play the markets, they end up as a Dawinian dystopia (look at Telkom, Big Cell, Big Banking, SAA, Eskom and other state owned enterprises), hence the slogan . .more

by Old Prog on December 04 2012, 09:55
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Being NOT for something is not enough
@ Old Prog

Where do they stand for example on Open Borders, Migrant Labour from across the borders, Pan Africanism, Black Only Homelands etc etc

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 10:23
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DA - liberal?
The DA has a confused ideological base. This is going to blow up in its face. To confused whites it portrays itself as a liberal/conservative party and to the just as confused blacks as a social democratic party. Note statements such as "the ANC has . .more

by Realist on December 04 2012, 10:40
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Which Mandela Legacy is the DA talking about?
@ Realist

The Communist Legacy? The PLO Pal Legacy? The Pan Africanist Legacy? Besides Mandela changed tack a while ago - the DA better start developing a legacy of their own or they will become irrelevant.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 10:48
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Why do South Africans take so long to react...
South Africans know what is right from what is wrong...
But took several decades to move away from Apartheid.
South Africans know about economics and about education...
But are taking so long to embrace what they already know works and to . .more

by Paul C on December 04 2012, 11:06
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@ Lyndall
That question you will have to ask Zille and her bunch of confused strategists.

by Realist on December 04 2012, 11:25
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I find VERY amusing the predicament the USA and Britain now find themselves in
Their leaders are freaking out that "neo-racism" and "neo-nazism" is growing. Actually it is neither - it is clashing cultures because their minorities are not so minor any more!

EVERY culture assumes that all new immigrants will fall over their . .more

by Lyndall Beddy on December 04 2012, 11:27
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It is not about culture...
The right thing to do in any given circumstance is not actiually about culture.

It is about risk...

by Paul C on December 04 2012, 12:07
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Liberalism ? I dont know
Certainly communism of a special type must vanish. In that sense Motlanthe seems hypocrite regarding his critique to the Mangaung proceedings. In the Netherlands the Senate will hold discussions on the ANC, plaasmoorde, black racism etc.
5 december, . .more

by Theo Prinse on December 04 2012, 12:12
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Full of $H1T
Politicians and babies nappies have one thing in common. They should both be changed regularly, and for the same reason.

by Gatvol on December 04 2012, 12:12
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Act Now!
If you are an ANC member of parliament, leave your position now, on the grounds that the ANC is no longer the better option for the people of South Africa.

If you are a member of the ANC do the same - do it also because the longer you hold out . .more

by Paul C on December 04 2012, 12:24
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End mediocrity NOW!
“In the land where excellence is commended, not envied, where weakness is aided, not mocked, there is no question as to how its inhabitants are all superhuman.”
― Criss Jami, Venus in Arms

by Paul C on December 04 2012, 12:49
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Prophets of destruction
As always the prophets started and predicting that the world will end as soon as JZ takes his second term, but we the masses are waiting to see once again as they fall through hurt inside seeing the man they hate again driving mzanzi to manna and honey!

by Lehlogonolo on December 04 2012, 13:08
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Learn NOW!
“Wrote my way out of the hood...thought my way out of poverty! Don't tell me that knowledge isn't power. Education changes everything.”
― Brandi L. Bates

by Paul C on December 04 2012, 13:14
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Nooooooooo!!!!!!!
Could someone pleeesse ! ! get Lyndal Beddy to SHUT UP ! !

by Velvet Undergruond on December 04 2012, 13:45
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@Lehlogonolo

You aver - "driving Mzansi to manna and honey..."

Papa Jake and the Zumanoids are driving SA all right, except it's not into a land of flatbread and honey. Rather try something along the lines of failed nation status, where honey is no . .more

by Marc V on December 04 2012, 14:52
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As always, RW Johnson hits the nail dead centre
I couldn't agree more. The Liberal tradition has survived and steadily grown for sixty years ( since 1953) despite onslaughts from outside. The gravest dangers it has faced has always come from within its ranks, from those who are too impetuous to wait . .more

by Samuel Slyme on December 04 2012, 15:33
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@ beddy
Please go away

Apart from being profoundly boring you are also incoherent

by voter on December 04 2012, 15:38
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@by . on December 03 2012, 19:55
Fakester.

by . on December 04 2012, 17:26
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hell zille
They are racist they must go bak to holland

by George on December 04 2012, 18:21
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I wish that ...
... RWJ, HZ and other "enlightened liberals" will come to understand that their philosophy of life, and their ideology, namely "liberalism" (whatever this term means) are NOT universal.

I sometimes get this feeling that Western Liberals believe . .more

by JVR on December 04 2012, 19:08
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Good point JVR;
Except that we are trying to deal with a broad brush of opposing values in our politics, the largely socialist ANC on one hand and largely liberal DA on the other; or you may define them also as black Nationalism versus white Nationalism; or even largely . .more

by Black Democrat and liberal on December 04 2012, 19:45
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A Cosatu/Communist Party Alliance provoked the Riots in the Cape
To try and force Farm Workers to unionise which they have refused to do do for 18 years because the Cape Coloured has never supported any Xhosa party and Cosatu is in alliance with the ANC.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 05 2012, 02:12
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And did the Cosatu/Communist Party Alliance provoke Marikana?
Because NUM was losing power? I really hope that Judge Farlam does an intensive search for the evidence!

by Lyndall Beddy on December 05 2012, 02:15
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Liberals are the first people conned by Communists!
Look at all the idiotic Western journalists who actually BELIEVED the fake shows Stalin gave of "ideal farming villages"! To quote from "The Eye of the Red Tsar" by Sam Eastland:

"After the revolution the government ordered all the farms to be . .more

by Lyndall Beddy on December 05 2012, 03:38
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RWJ,well written piece and good advice to DA.@Black democrat and liberal,are you a member of the DA?
@Black democrat and liberal, you would do well to join the DA as a member to fortify the liberal values in that organisation instead of pandering to vague populist notions.Principles do matter.And LIBERALISM is the principle.Who knows,you might be the . .more

by RJW admirer on December 05 2012, 08:40
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Lyndall just loves them old songs
The "Liberals conned by Communists" is an old, old song of right-wing loonies. It was a song sung regularly at National Party parish meetings. It was sung to the same tune by the Communists at their Bible-study meetings with one change: "Liberals were . .more

by Samuel Slyme on December 05 2012, 08:43
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@George
"hell zille - They are racist they must go bak to holland

Zille's ancestors were German.


Perhaps you and those who think like you should go back to Central Africa where the Bantu-speaking people migrated from and give the country . .more

by - on December 05 2012, 08:49
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RW Johnson is right
RW - you are a true, uncompromising liberal. Wish Zille and her party can learn a thing or two about what it means. They have lost the plot long time ago.

Reading some of the comments it is clear that even the rank and file members of the DA are . .more

by Realist on December 05 2012, 11:01
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Realist
Its a matter of tactics,isnt it?I do not think one tactic should be mutually exclusive of the other to even rubbish the principle of liberalism.Fact is that you can be black and still be viciously liberal and principled.I think Lindiwe mazibuko is a good . .more

by Black democrat and liberal on December 05 2012, 11:51
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Correction
This socalled populist approach I am being criticised for,in the context of our current south african reality,it is necessary to strengthen the basis for a liberal state by this kind of corrective measure.

by Black democrat and liberal on December 05 2012, 11:56
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The DA and Helen Zille are copying Mandela's Centralism.
But only Fascism and Communism have strong central authorities. There is NO such thing as "Democratic Centralism"as preached by Mandela and the ANC. ALL Democracies have strong decentralised local and regional authorities. Even China has decentralised to . .more

by Lyndall Beddy on December 05 2012, 12:15
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My understanding of LIBERALISM
My belief and understanding of liberalism is that it projects itself as a winning formula for any aspiring successful and winning nation in that if every individual is given power to realise their full potential, unhindered by restraints in governments - . .more

by Black democrat and liberal on December 05 2012, 12:24
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Lyndal
So, federalism=liberalism.Nothing more to that?

by Demacrat on December 05 2012, 12:36
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@ Demacrat
It is more complex than that. But strong local and region power is the only thing that works - all the Western Democracies have it. People do NOT want "deployed cadres" from outside their local areas - they want to chose local representatives whom they . .more

by LyndallBeddy on December 05 2012, 13:24
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RWJ
Brilliant.

by witbooi on December 05 2012, 17:52
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SA “Liberals” gave libaralism a bad name: They are schizophrenic & shrewd
>>"Among the more affluent whites of Constantia, Sandton and Durban North, its support reaches 90-100%."

DA is strong only because the NP disappeared and the ANC is faltering.

In 1994 only 338,426 (1,73%) voters supported Tony Leon's . .more

by TheDrake on December 07 2012, 11:07
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Pinning down the liberals
It is not that Ms Zille has shifted the DA's policies that the party doesn't look as liberal as it did, so much as liberalism is no longer as liberal as it was.

by Paul Whelan on December 08 2012, 17:03
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