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If Zuma's such a loser, why is he winning?

Jeremy Gordin
04 December 2012

Jeremy Gordin says the crafty peasant has apparently triumphed once again over all the clever people

I.

Shall we begin with Douglas Harvey Monro Gibson, our former ambassador to Thailand, or with Carien du Plessis and Mandy Rossouw of City Press? Ladies first, usually. But today we begin with Gibson.

In The Star of Monday 3 December, p 11, Gibson wrote: "[Jacob G Zuma's] first term has been a failure."

It's not clear whether he's referring to Zuma's first term as RSA president (so far) or first term as ANC president. But let's assume that he's referring to Zuma's first term as ANC president. The difficulty is that what follows seem to apply more to Zuma's presidency of the country than of the party, but anyway.

Gibson continues: "Characterised by drift, indecisiveness and no clear direction [are these not the same?], Zuma has been treated with discourtesy, downright rudeness and disdain by his own party members."  Gibson, who seems to like using three adjectives where one will do, doesn't specify which party members. Who can he mean? Little Julie Malema? The flotsam and jetsam of the youth league in Mpumalanga?

"He has carried on smiling through it all," Gibson continues.

Personally, I don't have a problem with this. Rabbi Shammai (in the Pirkei Avot 1.5) said: "Make your Torah fixed [learn it every day], say little and do much, and receive every person with a cheerful countenance."

Gibson continues: "... [Zuma's] presidential term needs major surgery if the Zuma legacy is to mean something."  WhatWhat legacy?

Never mind. Let's summarise: "[Jacob G Zuma's] first term has been a failure. [It has been] characterised by drift, indecisiveness and no clear direction... [Therefore, Zuma's ANC] presidential term needs major surgery ..." 

We turn now to the indomitable ladies (sorry, women) of City Press on 2 December.

"President Jacob Zuma will win a second term as ANC president," they wrote. "The nominations session, which reached a zenith yesterday, shows that [Zuma] has already secured more than the required votes for victory at the party's conference in Mangaung later this month. Zuma thus far has the support of 2 259 delegates, slightly more than the 2 251 he needs to secure a second term."

There you have it, brothers and sisters. ... From the citadel of St Ferial of the Spear and her adjutant Adriaan Basson, who recently shone a bright light on Lord Voldemort's dark side, we have been given, as though it were the Gospel itself, the following: the 70-year-old Zulu herd boy is going to take Polokwane, this time called Mangaung, all over again.

Given such knowledge, how are we to react? How are we to still our beating hearts? How are we to face the future without a diminution of our courage and faith?  Justice "the sky is falling" Malala has said the ANC is going to be history by 2019 or thereabouts. John Kane-Berman told a friend of mine that we are all duty-bound to be supportive of Zuma because the longer he's in power, the sooner will come the dissolution of the ANC as presently constituted...

But, as the late Norman Mailer remarked in another context, let us depart the realms of fantasy and such-like to find out what's really going on...

So this time we are not going to be taken by surprise; this time, to labour the point, even Haffajee's City Press has looked hard at the facts (the nominations) and Zuma is indeed going to come in. He's going to be in the victory chair with an unexpected partner, Cyril Ramaphosa; while it seems Kgalema Motlanthe's going off to enjoy life.

II

Now then, let's take our two main ingredients - (a) Zuma having had a more than crappy term as ANC president (babies out of wedlock, crumbling and defunct services, war in the ANC ranks, wholesale corruption, the Little Julie Malema revolt, the Marikana killings, the Anyone But Zuma bunch, etc, etc) and his ANC presidency therefore requiring "major surgery" - and (b) the apparent "fact" that he's going to win at Mangaung, and let's ask ourselves this:

If Zuma's such a loser and failure, if he's such an unmitigated paskudnyak, how come he's sweeping back to victory?

Why has the crafty peasant, the classic klutz, apparently triumphed yet again over the serried ranks of intellectuals, almost-intellectuals, media analysts, journalists, bloggers, political analysts, columnists, ethics experts, lawyers, and so on - who keep telling us that he's just not fit to rule? They're all so clever and he's supposedly not the sharpest pin in the box - he wears a shower head on his noggin, courtesy of Zapiro - so how come they can't get it right about him?  Or rather, how come their getting it right seems to make no difference at all to ANC branch members?

My father used to ask me from time to time: "If you're so clever, how come you ain't rich?"  If we're so clever, me and Ferial and Adriaan and Dot and Sam Sole and you and everyone else, how come our feelings and knowledge about Zuma are not shared by ANC members? Has everyone in the ANC been brainwashed? Is everyone in the ANC a moron? How can they bring back a failure such as JGZ, has everyone gone loopy? There are doubtless many Politicsweb readers who might like to think that the answers to the last three questions are yes and yes and yes ...

III

But let's get serious now. Obviously I don't know "all the answers" to the question, If Zuma's such a loser and palpable failure how come he's sweeping back to victory? I have been out of the cut and thrust of daily political and court reporting for quite a while now and I have not seen or spoken to Zuma face-to-face for two years, if not longer. (I saw him on Monday at Arthur Chaskalson's funeral and he was looking pretty "stressed," as they say. But Zuma's a bit like a Russian long-distance runner: the worse he looks, the better he's actually doing.) Anyway, here are a few random thoughts.

Let's take a minute to remember that Mangaung is not a general election, it's an ANC elective jamboree - a small matter that seemed to have eluded Douglas Gibson or maybe he was just badly sub-edited. Yes, I know the ANC rules the country and that the president of the ANC becomes the President of South Africa. But the point is that 4 000 or so ANC delegates will be voting, not the South African electorate. If you want to dump the ANC in 2014, you know what to do. The point is: the president of the ANC is elected by a minority and they're a minority with very specific views and biases.

The media "echo chamber" that characterised the run-up to Polokwane, in terms of which the media kept on talking to each other and echoing what each other said instead of speaking to the main players, is not so much in session any more. E.g., City Press examined the numbers and the players. But elements of the echo chamber do exist - in that the media and the chattering classes are still talking to each other, not to the folk in the ANC branches.

If I may be allowed a generalisation (which, as you know, I seldom make): the ANC branch members, who have just voted for the slates we have been discussing, really dislike the mainstream print media (and its electronic adjuncts). Why? Because, never mind Gibson's "party members," it's the mainstream media that have treated Zuma with "discourtesy, downright rudeness and disdain." It's been the likes of Peter Bruce, Makhudu Sefara, Nic Dawes, Mondli Makhanya, Prince Mashele, Ferial Haffajee, Adriaan Basson, Jeremy Gordin, Zapiro, and so on and so forth - you get the picture - who have made fun of or criticised the President of the ANC (all in the name of "freedom of speech" of course), who have denigrated him for wanting more than one wife, who have suggested righteously that it's incorrect for a red-blooded man to want to get his rocks off wherever and whenever he can, who have criticised him for wanting to fix up the family home and for wanting to give his family a leg-up (when everybody knows that that is what a chief does) and so on and so forth ...Yeah, ANC branch members really hate this bunch and their reaction is: He's our president, he's one of us, and you know what, you pompous wankers, if we want to re-elect him, we will.

In short, every attack on/criticism of Zuma has served to shore up the desire of the rank-and-file ANC members to re-elect him to the presidency - because the attacks are perceived to be driven by the print media, so-called intellectuals, the denizens of Johannesburg's northern suburbs and facsimiles thereof, and middle-class and aspirant blacks. The haves - whom the have-nots don't really like.

And Zuma has played the victim brilliantly. Every issue that has been used as a stick with which to beat him - Nkandlagate springs to mind - has been used by him as a trapping of victimhood, and it's worked well. You see, they say, the newspapers and the other enemies of the ANC are attacking our president again. Isn't he entitled to have the same kind of house they do? Or; these clever people in Jo'burg, these intellectuals, they paint a pornographic painting of him and they say it's about freedom of expression ....it's just another way to demean our president and embarrass him in front of his family, etc. But he has never betrayed us, the poor people of South Africa.

Political analyst Ralph Mathekga, who works with me at the Daily Sun, said to me today: "I wonder if you know what a massive anti-media groundswell there is. The people voting in the branches really don't like the media and their views of Zuma. Zuma just had to sit still, do nothing, and be a victim. And it's even possible, by the way, ironically, that the media's keeness on Motlanthe worked against him [Motlanthe]."

With the exception of Motlanthe, there really hasn't been any other contender worth writing home about - and Motlanthe has messed up his own chances by not striking while the iron was hot (or whatever it was that Bismarcksaid in standard nine history).

Zuma is - as the head of a NGO said to me the other day - "the smartest politician around, because he knows how to play the system. He sewed up KZN and he has taken care of everyone of the people responsible for leadership nomination lists throughout the country. It's obvious."

Mathekga had a final comment to make. "I'm concerned about the way the media has called this - and now considers it a done deal. Nomination lists are not exit polls; I repeat: nomination lists are not exit polls. There have been, as we know, a lot of problems in various branches, provinces and regions. It's not over till the bald fellow is in the victory chair. Unexpected things could - I stress could - happen at Mangaung ..."

This article was published with the assistance of the Friedrich-Naumann-Stiftung für die Freiheit (FNF). The views presented in the article are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of FNF.

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Comments

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 responses to this article

If Zuma's such a loser, why is he winning?
"Zuma thus far has the support of 2 259 delegates, slightly more than the 2 251 he needs to secure a second term." This is hardly sweeping into power.

by Flatdog1951 on December 05 2012, 00:23
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Zuma
Let's hope he will do a better job them in his first term.
And stop using all our money for personal enrichment.
D K

by Dieter K. on December 05 2012, 00:41
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Does it really matter.....
.....who wins the ANCpf Presidency at Mangaung ?

As JG correctly notes:-
"But the point is that 4 000 or so ANC delegates will be voting, NOT the South African electorate. If you want to dump the ANC in 2014, you know what to do. The point . .more

by John Austin on December 05 2012, 01:55
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Off the mark
This is the problem with the media, baseless childish liberal snipers of no particular significance. I don't even know why I kept reading, bar for my academic curiousity. Anyway, the ANC branches are not staging a "revolt agaist the media" by voting in a . .more

by Latex on December 05 2012, 02:22
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ANC - STRUCTURES.
Why do the media keep on misleading us ? It is not Zuma the "leader" - the majority in the NEC are the power - Zuma in fact repeatedly says so as well - they are so interdependant it is astonishing that it could happen so quickly. There is ultimately only . .more

by BAR on December 05 2012, 02:22
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It is NOT about Zuma at all!
Zuma is there as a ZULU FRONT for the Xhosa/Fingo ANC to keep the Zulu IFP out of controlling KwaZulu Natal.

Even if he grew 2 heads and was proved to have cloven feet they would vote him in - because he is the only Zulu with "struggle . .more

by Lyndall Beddy on December 05 2012, 02:24
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Intimidation and the corrupt relationship with Cowboys an Indians
Zuma has been used by the ANC for some time now to secure KZN and establish a secure conduit to the Preferential Procurement Policy Act of 2000. The People's War in KZN continues and the Cowboys and Indians;read corrupt relationships, have patronage and . .more

by Another Zulu with Another Mother on December 05 2012, 05:04
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Deeper than all of you can imagine
The problem here is not with Zuma. It is with the people who vote at elections. Zuma plays victim and people think why not, he's one of our own at the end of the day. It is not a secret that the majority of the ANC electorate is illiterate. The ANC still . .more

by Satirist on December 05 2012, 05:18
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racist criminals
The anc and all in it are nothing more than racist criminals that is why they can select a crook like Zuma again. The anc have no interest whatever in good governance. They do not see any wrong in theft of the country's resources or anarchy and murder to . .more

by tsumer on December 05 2012, 05:39
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if zuma is such a looser how come he is winning
It is true that people of South África are garliable&media,judges&oppositions have grabed that.so in doing so they play foul game by painting the bad picture to set direction for the country by picking up things they believe will draw attention of . .more

by leonard malomane on December 05 2012, 05:53
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@leonard malomane
Say what,Leonard?

by Max Silver on December 05 2012, 06:36
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crafty peasant
The crafty peasant does well because he tells people what they want to hear. i.e. tells unemployed whites that they ,the ANC, will reconsider Affirmative Action.
Every time he does this it just confirms what a lying politician he is.
It's a . .more

by jelry on December 05 2012, 06:43
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Zuma for President!
The masses never ever again want to be ruled by whites so they will always vote for tribe over progress/the right thing to do.
Let's just accept that they are here to stay only because they have an inferior insecurity phobia not to loose power coupled . .more

by cadwithoutend on December 05 2012, 06:55
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Jeremy
morning old man

lets be honest. the people voting zuma know one thing. if they dont get their man in then they themselves are out. they have no skill that the outside world wants therefor its a scramble for their survival.

secondly, from . .more

by Eddie on December 05 2012, 06:56
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Good artilce indeed JG
Now u understand the difference between the (whiteys and few darkies in cities) and the majority in rural areas.I can remember prior to Polokwane, Sunday Times did all it can to discredit Zuma to no avail. there is something that the whiteys must . .more

by khustaz on December 05 2012, 06:59
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@Leonard
Are you trying to write us a secret message we need to decipher, or are you still p*ssed after last night's party?

by Piet on December 05 2012, 06:59
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Jeremy Gordin/ Douglas Harvey Monro Gibson
It is a pity that Jeremy embarks on a sarcastic personal attack on Gibson in this article that it total distracts from the content.It is true if you cannot attack a persons argument or statement then attack the person. That is Julius Malema's protocol and . .more

by Hendrik Beukes on December 05 2012, 07:08
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My Delight..
I am delighted at Zuma getting a second term. It does not say much about his (more stupid than even he) supporters but it does bring the demise of the ANC a lot closer. And that, my friends, is good news!

by martin on December 05 2012, 07:31
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Crafty Peasants
Ok Jeremy
So WHO is the crafty peasants election team ? ( advisers and brainstrust )

You do not really expect us to beleieve that this is ALL the crafty peasants work on his own ?????

EVERY politician has a team -- and yes that is . .more

by Bibliophile on December 05 2012, 07:34
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@JG
"better the devil you know"- or? they are selling tickets in Mangaung- greatest show on earth- he he.

by Valie on December 05 2012, 07:52
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Jeremy Gordin, Who is this mysterious person called the INTELLECTUAL
''triumphed over the serried ranks of intellectuals,pseudointellectuals,media analysts,journalists,bloggers,political analysts,columnists,ethics experts,lawyers and so on''.

You are not the only one who knows what or who these intellectuals are . .more

by Aspirant Intellectual and ex ANC member on December 05 2012, 08:00
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If Zuma's such a loser, why is he winning?
Zuma is a strong man who only have the cabinet that need some changes not exactly him. In his cabinet he must include sme of opposing parties members for any planning , organising and leading this country to be democratic. If he can loose support ANCwould . .more

by khabs on December 05 2012, 08:00
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DELEGATES BEING BOUGHT FOR 5 GRAND THERE YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWER
AN *hungry stomach cant have a sober mind* thats why zuma is winning loyality bought

by mzala on December 05 2012, 08:03
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votes are for sale
Under Zuma, patronage (corruption) has become endemic, the movers and shakers have been bought off. Votes are for sale so the structure for retaining power is in place. Too many people with much to lose if Zuma gets the boot. From the smallest informal . .more

by wendy on December 05 2012, 08:05
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@Hendrik Beukes
Dear Hendrik Beukes, I'm glad you didn't cancel your subscription and that you are going to give Polweb and me another chance. So then, let me explain: that wasn't a personal attack on Gibson at all. He was merely my portal, as it were. Believe me, when I . .more

by Jeremy Gordin on December 05 2012, 08:31
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If Zuma's such a loser, why is he winning?
This the danger our country is facing. All the people who support Zuma are people who stand to personally befit from his Presidency. It is all about what is in for them and not for SA. Do you think people support ZANU PF for the sake of the welfare of . .more

by Tamara on December 05 2012, 08:32
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Sticks & Stones
NOW MR Editor

IF Jeremy is allowed to use the word -- then I am allowed to explain it // Versteh ?

He should realy have used .......

Chaim Yankel (khai-yam Yonk-l)

"If Zuma's such a loser and failure, if he's such an . .more

by Bibliophile on December 05 2012, 08:46
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AFTER MANGAUNG
let us forget about what will happen at Mangaung between Zuma and Motlante.My suggestion is as follows:
Mangaung outcome=ZUMA-ANC PRESIDENT UNTIL 2017 with Motlante being Deputy
National elections in 2014=KGALEMA-PRESIDENT OF SA and . .more

by LIMPOPO on December 05 2012, 08:53
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The more he wins
The more popular revulsion is created against him and his party
The quicker the klepto-asinino cadres are thrown out.
The sooner the DA starts fixing the failing state

by Injala Apera on December 05 2012, 08:54
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Why does Jeremy now need a good Stiftung
Jeremy used to write for R10 and a burger. Who are these Friedrich-Naumann-Stiftung für die Freiheit (FNF) people and are they giving him funny ideas?

by Anthony on December 05 2012, 09:00
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media
I like the analysis, but one thing bothers me: the hatred of the common ANC'ers for 'the media'. Because this assumes that they actually read M&G, City Press etc. But I'm not sure that they do. Or, I'm pretty sure that they don't. So is it the echo that . .more

by Fred on December 05 2012, 09:14
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zuma
To answer the question-its losers who vote for him,to survive they need the patronage at our expense

by vayeja on December 05 2012, 09:33
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Zuma
Jeremy,
You say he is a good politician. Ronald Reagan said of politics " it's the second oldest profession and resembles the first very closely" Leave the politician aside , is he a good leader. That is what this country needs , GOOD . .more

by eric on December 05 2012, 09:35
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You are so clueless
Nonsense boet. You clearly haven’t attended any of the nomination meetings. I have. People need cash chap, times are hard (40% unemployment, etc). Zuma pays and is not ashamed of it. Boys without matric certificates are making tens of millions simply by . .more

by Charles on December 05 2012, 09:39
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@eric
yes, and "prostitution is the oldest profession"-so they are raping the country and you are all for it-or? mute fools and dots are all alike- grey matter is not your eiderdown bro.

by Valie on December 05 2012, 09:54
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Holding thumbs
I'm holding thumbs that Zuma stays on. I can't afford another R260 million for the next guy.

by JMC on December 05 2012, 10:01
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Why is he winning? Consider the view from overseas!
Some people have the vocabulary to sum up things in a way you can understand them. This quote came from the Czech Republic Main Daily Newspaper Editorial. Someone over there has it figured out.
"The danger to South Africa is not Jacob Zuma but a . .more

by THINKER on December 05 2012, 10:21
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Why is Zuma Winning
Simple
Buying of votes - cANCer millions are available just look at Chandler House, PetroSA, Guptas, etc.
Intiimidation- Even arresting dissenters. Also just think back of our mother of the nation with the burning Stompie and the witness held in . .more

by Angli on December 05 2012, 10:23
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Why is Zuma winning?
Simple - just read the utter nonsense that was written by leonard malomane above - even this moron is probably representative of the top 1% of intelligence of Zuma's voting fodder.

by BoerVanDoer on December 05 2012, 10:31
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What is to be done - Jeremy Gordin?
Is the task of ANC members to prove intellectuals and the media wrong by re-electing Zuma, or to build a good organisation and elect a goood leader?

Is the job of Zuma 'to sit and play viictim' or to govern SA?

Does re-election of Zuma . .more

by 98% Zuluboy aka Ma'Kolobe on December 05 2012, 10:46
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If Zuma's such a loser and failure...how come he's sweeping back to victory?
"drift, indecisiveness & no clear direction" are not the same. Drift is the consequence of indicisiciveness & no clear direction. Indiciveness is about a lack of courage to decide, which could still occur even when the direction is clear! No clear . .more

by The Lord's Messenger on December 05 2012, 10:46
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IS everyone in the ANC a moron?
Seriously? No, not realistically speaking. Scared to lose their spot at the trough? Yes, most probably.

by Stephan on December 05 2012, 11:07
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Personality cult!
We have all known for sometime that JZ is no fool...those who don't like him only wishes he were. Those who like him don't care.
Its madness to think he is an idiot when he is clearly not.
But then........we believe what we see or rather what we . .more

by Platitudes and Plagiarism on December 05 2012, 11:10
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There is NO such thing as Centralised Democracy as preached by the ANC
Democracy everywhere is DECENTRALISED with strong local and regional autonomy.

Communism and Fascism are Centralised AND THEY DON'T WORK!

by Lyndall Beddy on December 05 2012, 11:22
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@ Leonard
We speak English on this forum. What language do you speak and where do you come from? Who taught you? And where are you working?

The answer has to be: HELL

by John Logan on December 05 2012, 11:30
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@ thinker
That is a very elequant, modern and politically correct way of saying:
"In the Kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is King"

You found a great little piece. Thank you Thinker!

by Platitudes and Plagiarism on December 05 2012, 11:31
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Sub-editing, Jeremy
Oh dear, Jeremy, Douglas Gibson may well be given to using three adjectives where one will do, but the last time I looked 'drift' (in the way used by Gibson), 'indecisiveness', 'direction', 'discourtesy', 'rudeness' and 'disdain' were nouns.

by William on December 05 2012, 11:36
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The TRC only examined ONE SIDE IN A CIVIL WAR!
It is time to examine the deaths on the other side, not "Reparations for Apartheid" but "Reparations for Communism" which includes the unexamined 20,000 deaths in the township war between the Democratic IFP and the Communist ANC.

As Churchill . .more

by Lyndall Beddy on December 05 2012, 12:21
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@ leonard malomane
You are obviously one of the voters referred to in the Czech Republic's main newspaper - Zuma is elected by voters and his total failure as a president and those who elected him must realize they put a complete failure in that position. Don't turn on his . .more

by THINKER on December 05 2012, 12:34
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whats wrong with Lyndall Beddy?
Nay Nay Nay, Whats TRC got to do with this article? we have been correcting her for a long time now.

by Khustaz on December 05 2012, 12:49
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He wins
Because the ANC is afraid of the other political animals in the party. 2% of students pass mathematics 50%. When Malema takes over the textbooks won't even reach the schools.

by Nasdaq7 on December 05 2012, 12:57
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Read Adriaan Basson's book
Although most of the material in "Zuma Exposed" will be known to anyone who has followed the shenanigans of Zuma and his court over the years, it still takes one's breath away to see the mountain of dirt all collected in one place. All this stuff is . .more

by William on December 05 2012, 12:58
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where this rubbish of Zuma paying member
That is a lie and absolute rubbish

by Njenje on December 05 2012, 13:16
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Forgotten issue of National Conference
The media has forgotten that the conference is not only about electing leaders but also policy discussion and adoption thereof. Why the obsession with imaginary leadership battles?

by Keith on December 05 2012, 13:35
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@William and nouns vs adjectives
when you're right, you're right. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

by Jeremy Gordin on December 05 2012, 13:44
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@Bibliophile 08:46
I didn't say he is a paskudnyak; I said if he WERE one. Got to keep your eye on the ol' subjunctive there, my brother.

by Jeremy Gordin on December 05 2012, 13:48
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Paskudnyak.....

What a fine descriptive word, and one which might well fittingly be ascribed to comrade Zuma.... it certainly could be deployed to describe some of the POLITICSWEB bloggers, ne.

Which leads me to a small question. Is it a plural & diminutive . .more

by John Austin on December 05 2012, 14:25
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Have to say I have nothing in common with these people
Will have to leave as living in SA has become dreadful. with all the looting, corruption, rape, murder, crime, appalling education, terrible roads, shocking management of state resources, incompetent cabinet ministers, theft and all. Just a terrible place . .more

by Get Out on December 05 2012, 14:28
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Exposition
"Many thanx to JEREMY & BIBLIOPHILE for exposing it.."
Yre welcome
Talking about exposing -- and not in Galleries -- or Galleons

Here is a little Mitzvah

http://www.rawilson.com/

You may ( may you ) have many hours of . .more

by Bibliophile on December 05 2012, 15:03
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First ladies
Cocerned taxpayers should organise a national prayer day to pray for president Zuma not to take more wives in his second term as the maintenance of the current wives and approximately 30 children is heavy on the taxpayers' shoulders.

by Tgirl on December 05 2012, 15:45
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Wendy
You are spot on.

by wm on December 05 2012, 15:45
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Democracy is over-rated and Msholozi under-rated.
The reason we have a Zuma and not a Malema is because of the tightly controlled process of voting in the ANC. I can tell you now that where it not for that, the most popular personality would have won and that would have been, you guessed it Julius & co. . .more

by Veja on December 05 2012, 16:00
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Jeremy/Douglas Harvey Monro Gibson
Dear Jeremy, while I understand your fascination with my string of fancy names, you may call me Douglas as everyone else does. My point is JZ has failed as leader of SA. If he wants to become a success when re-elected he must break the tripartite . .more

by Douglas Gibson on December 05 2012, 16:16
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Vega
Who are you.You seem to be speaking on behalf of Zuma.If this is what is happening in the ANC, manipulating elections as you do of the ANC.What hope then do we have that you would not do the same with national elections when you fear loss of power and be . .more

by Jabu on December 05 2012, 17:12
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Jeremy...
... the reality is that President Zuma is not a loser because he is a winner.

It is only SAcan Liberals (or what remains of them -- so many having emigrated to escape the consequences of their politics) who cannot think straight.

SAcan . .more

by JVR on December 05 2012, 17:21
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Pretty good stuff...
I reckon Hymie the Hamster has been giving you some tips..."The haves - whom the have-nots don't really like" is really the heart of the matter...the creation of a chasm (real or perception) the "them and us" and Zumas ability to turn adversity into . .more

by . on December 05 2012, 17:29
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Whats changed
African democracy remains the the election of the election of the incompetent and corrupt by the ignorant and illiterate .

by Green Room on December 05 2012, 20:28
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@by Green Room on December 05 2012, 20:28
Excellent news...it means African democracy is at the same level as democracy everywhere else...

by . on December 05 2012, 20:39
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@boerevandoer&johnlogan
Oya gafa ka nnete, this is not a political class,so tlogelang bogafi guys

by leonard on December 05 2012, 21:09
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@by leonard on December 05 2012, 21:09.....

.....translation, anyone, please ?

Chikurubi-Blog-Meister :)

n.b. for Leonard - most of us cope with English, Brakpan slang, some taal, & even JG's polish and other Yiddish coloquialisms..... but yours..... well, they leave me . .more

by John Austin on December 05 2012, 22:14
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Valie
Just want to clarify my grey matter. I am questioning Jeremy's statement of JZ being a good politician. Politicians are not necessarily good leaders and I am acutely aware that JZ might be good at manipulating his sycophants but he certainly has lost the . .more

by eric on December 05 2012, 23:16
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Why Cde Jacob
All the " smart oke's " dont vote for the ANC and they dont understand that us members of the ANC still regard Cde Jacob as our leader........unlike all you smart commentators who dont support , let alone are members of the ANC.
So we just say " it's . .more

by Stuart Collins on December 05 2012, 23:18
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by . on December 05 2012, 20:39
Well Dorothy , you walked into it .

Any democracy is directly proportional to the literacy of the electorate .

Thusly on the dark continent , where the majority of the "bred at the price of a paw paw" inhabitants , struggle to . .more

by Green Room on December 06 2012, 07:51
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by Stuart Collins on December 05 2012, 23:18
Mr or would that be Master Collins , your assertions epitomize he who stands in the croc infested river feeding the crocs , hoping to be eaten last .

Trust me when you have outlasted your usefulness to the communist engineers who drive the great . .more

by Green Room on December 06 2012, 07:57
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Jeremy at his stupidist.
WE now look forward to your defence, on the same grounds, of:
Atilla the Hun
Al Capone
Jeremy Gordin
Adolf Hitler
Hendrik Verwoerd
Lenin
Mao Tse Tung
Napoleon
Stalin

by Loudly South African on December 06 2012, 09:02
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@by Green Room on December 06 2012, 07:51
Yet Russians are highly literate..and look at democracy there...whilst chav-infested Britain is semi-literate and look at democracy there...then there is the the US whose literacy versus their democratic traditions is totally out of whack...It follows . .more

by . on December 06 2012, 10:25
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by . on December 06 2012, 10:25
It's called percentage poll - to break this down into coherent and incoherent votes - is a tad difficult - hence "directly proportionate" best covers this .

The only way to extrapolate whether yobbos or classists vote in the UK would be an . .more

by Green Room on December 06 2012, 10:54
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@by Green Room on December 06 2012, 10:54
"qualified franchise"???? Like being a South African citizen and having a tax number and submitted a valid tax return?

by . on December 06 2012, 11:13
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Qualified franchise by ownership of land or minimum salary/wage income
You did not even have to be literate or be able to read and write - only to be able to support yourself and family and therefore independent of the control of a tribal chief.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 06 2012, 11:35
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@by Lyndall Beddy on December 06 2012, 11:35
Im not too keen for a qualified franchise based on land ownership, you may be rich enough to have land but not declare income and pay no tax because you do not bother to submit tax returns, so IF there was a qualified franchise (all franchises are . .more

by . on December 06 2012, 12:37
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@Dot - the sound mind criterion....
.....if properly applied would also eliminate most Politicsweb commentators, if there is a minimum age to vote why not a maximum age? when does senility and frailty set in? 65?75? 85?".

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself, Dot.

You ask . .more

by John Austin on December 06 2012, 13:18
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@by John Austin on December 06 2012, 13:18
I'm not too hard on myself at all...and as you know I try to never give out personal information on the internet...it's the rest of you that may have a hard time meting the new draft Qualified franchise ideas....

by . on December 06 2012, 13:31
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Land was very cheap then - not like now at all.
@.

And it is rather difficult not to register for tax with our PAYE system.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 06 2012, 14:35
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@by Lyndall Beddy on December 06 2012, 14:35
Its the huge informal sector that needs to be dragged intgo the tax net, the taxi drivers, traders, "self-employed" those of "independent means"...PAYE only affects those who are officially employed...

by . on December 06 2012, 14:51
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Overbreeding and overpopulation has resulted in unemployment
@.

In those days there was work for anyone who wanted it.

by Lyndall Beddy on December 07 2012, 09:47
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The ANC will save us all
Watch, all will be fine - no poverty great education, great health great everything. We have proved we are the best people to run South Africa. Viva Zuma for term 3.

by . on December 07 2012, 11:36
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@by . on December 07 2012, 11:36
Fakester.

by . on December 07 2012, 11:50
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White media!!!
this is all bulls... from a white media owned by white racists. You know sometimes I just wish my son will grow up knowing people not white or black people...But for now we are always reminded by boJeremy that we are black and thus inferior that's why we . .more

by Young educated and black on December 08 2012, 09:20
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Whites have not owned the Media since 1994
@Young "ueducated"

Anglo American sold the "Liberal English Press" to Cyril Ramaphosa and an International Consortium (ref: "Cyril Ramaphosa")

by Lyndall Beddy on December 08 2012, 13:41
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Stats = 90x..... much better, but.....

......must try harder.

JG, notwithstanding that you are referred to as "That nice Mr Gordin" and BULLFINCH has been labelled worse than "paskudnyak" by certain boycotting bloggers who breach their own self-imposed sanctions against him, he . .more

by John Austin on December 09 2012, 13:32
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Liberation of South Africa and Democratic Rule By ANC
Truth and Sacrifice for Freedom of all South Africans is not a monopoly for some!!

by Mzondi58 on December 17 2012, 20:12
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Colonialism and subjugation of one race by another!!
To lead a Nation we do not need Intelectual Power but more so than not Wisedom and Love for the people and Nation of South Africa as awhole!!

by Mzondi58 on December 17 2012, 20:16
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government in power
They are taking from their own people to satisfy their greed, and lining their own pockets.
We need a democratic party with all the races equally to put this country back on the map.
Crime has escalated ten fold from the apatheid days, do you . .more

by Overseas on February 17 2013, 13:10
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