How many South Africans have left the country?

Over the past few years there have been periodic bouts of speculation and controversy over the extent of South Africa's brain drain. Statistics South Africa stopped collecting data on emigration several years ago, and the flawed conduct of the 1996 and 2001 censuses has left question marks hanging over calculations based on other official data.

In 2006 the South African Institute of Race Relations estimated - by comparing the figures in Stats SA household surveys from 1995 and 2005 (as well as analysing other data) - that 841 000 white South Africans had left the country in that period.

However, as Patrick Laurence pointed out at the time there had been a considerable undercount of whites in the 2001 census and as a result the whites "who ‘disappeared' between 1995 and 2005 may not have emigrated. They may simply not have been counted in the 2001 census and consequently may not have been reflected adequately, if at all, in subsequent statistical data released by Stats SA."

Laurence further quoted Hilary Southall, a member of the Statistics Council, as saying that if the SAIRR had used the 1996 household survey figure as its starting point - rather than the 1995 one - the decline in the white population would have been measured at 127 000.

As it happens the main destination countries of South African emigrants do keep figures on the foreign born population of their countries. From this data, which is available on the OECD website, it is possible to get a fairly good idea of the extent of South African emigration.

19 OECD countries keep this sort of data. As the table below indicates - in 2010 - at least 588 388 individuals in these countries were recorded as having been born in South Africa. The real figure is likely to be higher than that as the figures for Canada and New Zealand date from 2006 and since then there have been further documented inflows of South African born migrants.

The countries with the highest numbers of individuals born in South Africa are, as one might expect, the United Kingdom (227 000), Australia (155 690), the United States of America (78 616), New Zealand (41 676) and Canada (38 310). These figures do not, obviously, include children born to South African born parents overseas.

According to separate OECD data on the inflows of foreign population by nationality 17 840 South Africans moved to these five countries in 1997 (the first year for which full data is available.) This trended upward before peaking at 44 227 in 2004. These inflows have subsequently declined somewhat, particularly to the United Kingdom, and in 2009 28 933 South Africans were recorded as having moved to these countries. In 2009, for the first time, more South Africans moved to Australia than to the UK (see graph below).

The major push factors, particularly for white South African emigrants, have traditionally been put down to high levels of violent crime (often personally experienced) and the racial employment policies of the African National Congress government. To these one could perhaps add the growing evidence of state decay and a resurgence of demands by ANC politicians for something to be done about continued white wealth.

The pull factors have recently weakened considerably due to the global financial crisis. However, if the ANC govt decides to go ahead with threatened amendments to the Employment Equity Act - which would apply punitive sanctions to companies that continued to promote whites into senior and top management positions - we are likely to see another surge of emigration by this group.

Table: Stock of foreign born population by country of birth (Country of origin: South Africa)

* The data for Canada, New Zealand and Ireland is from 2006. The data for France is from 2008.

Source: OECD data (http://stats.oecd.org/)

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SA DIASPORAN STOCK Your total figures seem low @ only 600k & the UK figure of only 227k seems very low. London is said to be 250k alone. When we arrived here 1988, Rooibosch tea was only obtainable from visiting SAfricans or from the one & only SA shop in . .more Kent. Boerewors was unheard of. There are now many SA shops all around London; many Brit trafitional family butchers stock superb wors (incl lamb/pork & beef/pork), my local pom butcher also stocks biltong (& a Pick n Pay electric biltong fine slicer), and Rooibosch tea is available in all the supermarkets under a variety of labels. SA Rugby jerseys & Boks kit is seen frequently & Londoners are learning how to correctly pronounce Afrikaner surnames. My observation is that a large number of the SAs in London already hold some sort of ancestral right to live/work here & use it (but without formally migrating out of SA). In this way they hedge their bets on the one hand, whilst learning how to swim in international waters on the other. In the last 10 to 15 years of observation, I would say many arrive here with heavy hearts, not really planning to stay & secretly hoping SA will come right soon - many quite vocally so during the rainbow phase. Invariably that temporary transition morphs into permanent UK residency - with SA becoming a holiday destination only. Try & get a flight at Christmas. . .less by John Austin on August 14 2012, 02:58 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Stats on South Africans in the United Arab Emirates What about the statistics of South Africans in the United Arab Emirates. The last I read, was above 150,000 were in the United Arab Emirates at one stage. This number is not stagnant and fluctuates up and down due to the fact that the UAE is . .more simply a good bridge towards settlement in the listed countries above. . .less by Clinton on August 14 2012, 04:56 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

SA Diaspora These figures are way too low to be credible. Only 227 000 in the UK? Just today we read about ETV starting a UK-based news channel carried by Sky, who recently kicked out Iran's Press TV channel. ETV boss Patrick Conroy is quoted by Rapport as "wanting . .more to reach the more than a million SA expats and others interested in SA". http://www.rapport.co.za/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/eNews-wil-ons-eie-storie-aan-wereld-vertel-20120811 I came to the UK 3 years ago - just packed up and left, as so many others did. Here in the North West near Manchester where we're supposed to be thin on the ground, it astounds me to see how many small butcher shops sell boerewors (or as they call it, "SA Sausage") which is continuously sold out if you shop too late. The local Tesco stocks Mrs Balls, Kruga biltong and even maize meal. I have a choice of about ten online (and physical) shops from whom I order a wide range of SA groceries. My wife walks in to the local doctor's surgery, and an exasperated NHS nurse says "you're the sixth S. African registering with us this week - are you invading"? So, simply looking at supply and demand in my "market town" neck of the woods, and ETV's plans, the numbers must support it. I suspect Conroy is being a bit optimistic but would guesstimate a more accurate figure of between 5 and 700 thousand Saffers in the UK . .less by ZA Expat on August 14 2012, 05:10 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Facts I guess its a result of globalisation, people are free to move by Nqaba on August 14 2012, 05:10 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

SA's White Exodus The Rand, Durban and Cape Town's white populations in 1985 were swelled by a considerable number of immigrants from the UK, Germany, Italy, Holland, Ireland etc., most of whom had permanent residence status. I suspect that the MAJORITY of them have . .more either returned to Europe, or moved elsewhere, but out of Africa. That aspect of shrinkage of the SA white population will show up neither on OECD surveys, nor on SA voters’ rolls. Remember how cosmopolitan Hillbrow used to be in that era? Those clubs for foreign nationals that had flourished during our boom years are now but pale shadows of what they used to be. Look also at numbers of white children in public schools in Jhb (can’t comment on other centres), surely a fraction of the numbers attending 20 years ago? And at old-pupil get-togethers, informal surveys suggest that more than half those who matriculated 1985 to 2000 are no longer living in South Africa. And unfortunately, it’s the dross and the also-rans that remain here – the lively stars have read the writing on the walls, and have been able to make their fresh starts where they feel less unwanted. No, Nquaba, they're not as free to move as they used to be, before the meltdown of 2008. Those falling arrivals in the UK are because immigrants are no longer as welcome as they were six years ago. Thank heavens! . .less by Questor on August 14 2012, 06:11 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Questor Exactly what I was planning to write. I have emigrated to SA in the early 70s, but left recently. One of my British neighbours arrived in 75 with wife and two small kids, all of them left a few years ago and none of us would appear in these type of . .more statistics. Some of us are retired, others like my neighbour's kids are at the peak of their career, but all of us take away expertise and money. You have mentioned schools. I always find it strange that in the 70s-80s all the non-English speaking immigrant kids studied in regular schools and they managed to do very well despite receiving education in a foreign language. On the other hand people often claim that black kids fail in school because they do not receive education in their mother tongue. . .less by The Hun on August 14 2012, 06:45 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Emigration Be more objective in your article. Why amplify the "whiteness" of the emigration or attribute the reasons to be primarily to be violence, crime and ANC politicians squeals about white wealth? It gives the impression that whites, more than other race . .more groups, find the situation in RSA so intolerable as to warrant leaving. If there were communities overseas where ease of integration and attractiveness of opportunity for RSA's "non-white" race groups existed, the figures would no doubt be even higher and even more so, if they possessed the financial means as had/do their purportedly priveleged/advantaged/wealthy white co-citizens. While the numbers certainly tell a story they deny objective reality. A qualitative survey of academic and experiential skills of emigres would contribute a significant qualitative element to the picture. Furthermore, the picture would not be complete without the results of a survey of those (OF ALL RACES) remaining in RSA, who would leave, if they could. Of course once we have such a picture then, like all visual art, it will be up to the viewer to draw their own personal response/reaction from the image, as our recent "Spear of the Nation" debacle has demonstrated. The ANC may apply to the Const. Court to ban all further emigration? . .less by Basil on August 14 2012, 07:01 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Questor on August 14 2012, 06:11 Dross - nah son , cant agree . For sure there's a bad potato in every patch , but plenty of solid saffers still here . Although my own brother who was one of the founding directors of the leading asset management firm here , retired aged 46 and moved to . .more Oz , 2 years ago and says they are particularly happy . There are some serious issues which need to be addressed here - the culture of dishonesty taken root since 1994 , mediocrity / productivity and a general breakdown in infrastructure since the fraudulent practice of affirmative action which gave rise to excellence being overlooked in favour of ideology . I suspect very shortly there will be a scientific exposé on productivity . Meanwhile , between the Ex Rhodie and SADF expats , I read with interest that groups are prepared to fight for that which has been ruined since ANC were handed the country . My thoughts are that groups like Eriks Blackwater and Eben's EO would P*** a hole through the MK run defence force currently usurping tax payers rands as they perish from Aids . . .less by Green Room on August 14 2012, 07:02 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Proof of the Decline Just in case you lot have selective amnesia , when I was a lighty , english cricketer Sir Dennis Compton sent his son Patrick to be educated at Michaelhouse in the Natal Midlands during the 70's. If one were to extrapolate going forward , it . .more is unlikely that Rooney , Beckham , Sir Geoffrey or Gooch would repeat the performance currently and its pretty straight forward to deduce that they too can see the keys to the sweetshop have been entrusted to the moronic yoof lika and their cohorts . . .less by Green Room on August 14 2012, 07:10 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

So little have left, we are doing a bad job maqabane? We must up the ante and quadripple this figure in the next 3 yrs and make sure they don't come back! by Kom Net Met Dromedaries on August 14 2012, 07:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Kom Net Met Dromedaries on August 14 2012, 07:24 Jy moes saam met die submarine , ondertoe gewees het , seunie . by Green Room on August 14 2012, 07:42 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Kom Net Met Dromedaries the african will starve, there will be no medical care and education will finally be zero.....you need the white mans magic to live.....A*******!!! by onlooker on August 14 2012, 07:45 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Shoulder to the wheel Hey guys. Sad and sorry to see those fellow SAfricans go - and all for the wrong reasons. With them left at least a few million job opportunities if not about 10 million. Imagine what their approximately 1 million votes could have done to the . .more balance of power. Politicians come and go as do political parties. We have the structure and the basis. Let the rest of us put shoulder to the wheel and make things work. In the process lets get rid of the ANC - they are toxic and do not represent the ideals of what they supposedly fought for any longer. . .less by Bokdrol on August 14 2012, 08:18 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Emigration Curiously, most commentators and investigators always seem to concentrate on Whites leaving Africa and then trot out the usual reasons; crime; failing health services; overloaded and inefficient bureaucracies, and so on. In fact an even more serious . .more flight is that of Black Africans leaving to live abroad, thus draining their home countries of a pool of talent desperately needed for nation-building. This is what deprives the home population of leadership and abandons the country to rule by gangsters. That is what South Africa should be worried about. . .less by Benjamin Blair on August 14 2012, 08:19 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Non-Residents This does not take into consideration the large numbers of South Africans who are working in other countries, but who have not officially emigrated. There are thousands of South Africans in the Middle East, most notably, nurses, teachers, and other scarce . .more professions in South Africa. In Jeddah, for example a supermarket stocks South African goods for the large SA expat community there. The Far East has thousands of South Africans who have been living there for long periods of time, and there are many African countries with large South African populations. Then there are the thousands of SAs who are waiting for their citizenship of their new countries to be approved, as well. Large refugee populations are usually caused by war, famine and oppression. In SA's case it caused by inept, greedy government and draconian racial laws. Needless to say, not all of these emigres are white. They represent the full diversity of the SA population and the majority are skilled professionals who could have a tremendous impact on the success of South Africa. And South Africa is one of the few countries that won't allow these emigres to vote in elections, a factor normally found in undemocratic countries and dictatorships. . .less by Markza on August 14 2012, 08:29 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Dromedaries can't spell. "Quadripple" ROFL. Keep up the entertainment! by Argus Eye on August 14 2012, 08:41 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

How many South Africans have left the country? May be in the very near future, there will be more South Africans living abroad than in SA. Perhaps if Government can pay better salaries to our professionals then we wont have to have these problems. I don's blame the people from leaving SA when . .more government is getting paid an enormous salaries while the life saving professional are being paid minute amounts, having salary delays, hence who blames them from moving. Government MUST control their expenses and allow a large increase to the Medical, Educational and engineering fields and be able to compare salaries with overseas countries and pay the people the best they can. In all due respect we may not have any medical staff in the near future so do we go to the Vet for treatment? This vibrant land is becoming abandoned each and every day. What are we going to do if all the professionals have left including the youth? There is a great shortage of Medical doctors, nurses, engineers, and educators, What is Government going to do to invite our professional to come back HOME? . .less by MO KHAN on August 14 2012, 09:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

have they considered.... .....The thousands that are returning every year? by fraud on August 14 2012, 09:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

tolerance If whites find it hard to have blacks as their leaders,friends,neighbors,colleagues and etc. shame on them they r welcome to ship out , that will indeed open more job opportunities for proud SOUTH AFRICANS. by vivo on August 14 2012, 09:32 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Mo KHAN Typical prejudiced and insular attitude. People like you that think all professionalism is owned by whites and Indians belong to the old order of racist mind-set. Under president Zuma there is no doubt that myriad opportunities for development . .more have emerged. Look at Zuma's nephew; from nobody and nothing to a 260 kg urban gorilla-entrepreneur who has made billions through personal dedication. . .less by . on August 14 2012, 09:33 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Basil If the ANCpf were to ban emmigration out of SA we'd do it by any means necessary. I for one will be packing up soon and getting the hell out of this facist one party state led by a D*** with the mentality of a brick. by Eish on August 14 2012, 09:34 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

A Better Survey has been done - using Age Groups There is a vast gap in SA with white people in the age group young children to 30 year olds significantly missing. Unfortunately I don't remember if it was part of the census or not, but it was discussed on the radio a few years ago. by Lyndall Beddy on August 14 2012, 09:35 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Educated Blacks and Browns are also leaving Black and Brown doctors, nurses etc are also leaving. That child that was killed in the enrollment stampede had both his parents working in London. by Lyndall Beddy on August 14 2012, 09:38 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@fraud My son emigrated to NZ six years ago and is doing very well. He is employed by International Research Limited, the NZ version of our CSIR, who recognized his Qualifications, training and experience and remunerates him accordingly. He has already become a . .more NZ citizen and will definitely not return to Seffrica. Yes there are Seffricans that return but not many. A few years ago one of our female Ministers went on a world tour to woo SA expats to return to Seffrica with all sorts of promises. In Auckland the audience of approx 700 in the City Hall booed her off the stage. Most emigrants left because they saw no future here for themselves and especially for their children. White males are discriminated against by the regimes vindictive policies of AA and BBBEE. So how do you build a future? You go to where you are appreciated. Yesterday a report was released that labour productivity is the lowest it has been in 46 years. Anybody want to venture a guess why? . .less by James Bell on August 14 2012, 09:52 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Lies, damn lies and stats Many Saffers have dual citizenship. To all intents and purposes they are South Africans, living here, working here, etc. the only difference between them and their next-door neighbour is the legal technicality through quirk of birth. When . .more they "emigrate", they just have to leave using their local (French, British, etc) passport. They even get to go through the quick queue on arrival. What should be of greater concern is the amount of money that is leaving, and more so, not coming to these shores. More of the trillions of investment dollars that are looking for a home would come here if we created a favourable environment. This would create jobs and enough wealth to sort out our problems. Bit of a chicken and egg situation. . .less by Loudly South African on August 14 2012, 10:27 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Interesting that a few went back home, HOLLAND? Is the situation that bad? I cann't imagine being rejected by my own for being so USELESS! 1 important piece of info missing is how many BLACKS either from exile or partners from India or China r now SA residents since '94? Mistake or Apartheid mindset at play here? by Mute Fool_Makoya on August 14 2012, 10:36 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Did they bring brains or greed - only history will tell. Lord Chelmsford of the Battle of Isandhlwana infamy, who finally defeated the Zulus at Ulundi died in 1905. The English were a very small minority then confined to Natal and the Cape. The discovery of Diamonds and Gold attracted thousands if not millions . .more of immigrants from Europe. 92 years after the 'war' Lord Chelmsford died the 'Zulus' are on top again but have not just regained 'Zululand' but the entire Union of South Africa as the British had originally envisaged it. What we are really seeing here is the inevitable reversal of the 116 year old trend of the white scramble for diamonds and a better life in Africa. They came here when the British Empire was on the brink of bankruptcy and they return again when bankruptcy threatens Europe. Really nothing surprising here, history is merely repeating itself. The subjugated majority who provided cheap labour for years have turned the tables and are now in charge of what what rightfully theirs to begin with. . .less by Veja on August 14 2012, 11:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ vivo on August 14 2012, 09:32 >>"If whites find it hard to have blacks as their leaders,friends,neighbors,colleagues and etc....." Reality is that the liberation movement officially regards "whites" as the "enemy" and therefore finds it hard to have them as "their . .more leaders, friends, neighbours, colleagues and etc". This is the reason for the racist so-called National Democratic Revolution. The 2007 Strategy and Tactics of the ANC clearly states that: "96. The liberation movement defined the enemy, on the other hand, as the system of white minority domination with the white community being the beneficiaries and defenders of this system. These in turn were made up of workers, middle strata and capitalists. Monopoly capital was identified as the chief enemy of the NDR." >>"...shame on them they r welcome to ship out, that will indeed open more job opportunities for proud SOUTH AFRICANS." The problem is that professionals and entrepreneurs usually take their expertise, capital, companies and work opportunities with them when they leave under duress. Emigration together with discriminating labour legislation and taxation cause the formal sector to keep on shredding jobs. The shame clearly rests on the SACP intellectually misled ANC government. Reconsider your narrow view that "whites" should be ashamed for leaving SA for the wrong reasons. . .less by TheDrake on August 14 2012, 11:55 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Vivo, Dottie, Veja Do you know the story of the goose that lay the golden eggs? Probably not, as it has not been written by the ANC, so why would you care?Don't worry, you don't need to read it, the story is being performed now and here. Do you read it? Do you like the . .more ending? . .less by Tess on August 14 2012, 12:22 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Veja They have now what was or is rightfully theirs. But by themselves . they would not be able to utilize it. They could not even make a wheel or a fishing rod. BUT they are experts to take what they did not create. by otto on August 14 2012, 12:23 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Wish we weren't here These statistics don't include those South Africans who wish they had left,or wish they still could immigrate. I know the UK has done surveys like this for their own populace. Even the UK, about half of the populace wish they were somewhere else. Must . .more have got worse since the 2008 crash. . .less by Acid Mind on August 14 2012, 12:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ veja pray tell how they have turned the tables? yes, there is the political power but all they are doing with that is stealing and breaking. is that what you mean? that they can now do as they please, even acting like thievs and . .more criminals? have they turned other tables? not talking about throwing them around at meetings mind you. have they started educating the african child? have they stopped the death of african children, because i hear its far worse now. seriously veja, what tables being turned are you talking about? south africa is slowly being africanised, of that no doubt, but i ask, how is it being africanised. in what GOOD WAY is all this happening. there are more squatters and shebeens than ever before; there is more unemployment; there is service dliery issues every day; etc etc. i ask again, what will you be so proud of that we could write books about the greatness in years to come. you choose your leaders through emotion, and then throw them out through emotion. thats real turning the tables stuff. your people are simple and have no inclination to move with the times. am i wrong. i dont think so. it is africa mos. btw; who made up the word "africa" i personally employ over 25 people. will you let them at your table when i leave? . .less by Eddie on August 14 2012, 12:30 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

brain drain I am proudly Seffrican, my roots are here since 1689. I am proud of those roots, They gave a wealth to this country, and yes, to Dottie, Vivo, Veja and others like them too, though they hate to admit it. The ANC detests excellence. They are allergic to . .more it.Hence BEE and affirmative action. My husband holds a doctorate in engineering, acclaimed also by an American university. He can offer a lot. BUT he is a white male. My son is an actuary, graduated at Edinborough. /With straight A's he could not get a bursury for his studies and had to take up every cent while He wants to live and work here, contribute to this country, BUT he is white.m They are being punished for being white, and for excelling. How wrong, how stupid, how tragic. . .less by Tess on August 14 2012, 12:32 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Veja on August 14 2012, 11:24 >>"The subjugated majority who provided cheap labour for years have turned the tables and are now in charge of what what rightfully theirs to begin with." This is another admittance that revenge for perceived injustices in the form of reversed . .more racism is the driving force behind the racist NDR. Thank you for being honest about it – Genocide Watch was correct to upgrade SA to level 6 during 2011. I suppose that those like you that are proud to be violent revolutionaries, communists and racist pan-Africanists and/or patriarchal tribalists must be expected to do what these kinds of people do best - building a vibrant country that truly revels in its diversity or forging a rapidly growing economy that will drastically decrease unemployment have never been their fortes in any of the countries that experimented with Stalinism/Marxism or archaic tribalism. You are in fact proud of the fact that South-Africans are fleeing because they fear for their own and the lives of their loved ones. And you are either too blind to see or too intellectually challenged to understand that your attitude and the NDR are in more than one way illegal, unreasonable and totally counterproductive - it is impacting negatively on the quality of life and the life-expectancy of all South-Africans. The eyes of the world are on you and shame rests on yo . .less by TheDrake on August 14 2012, 12:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Veja, Dottie,Vivo Do you really and truly believe your own arguments? Are you really not ashamed of the mess your beloved ANC has made and is still making? Do you care what you look like at all? Do you know? by Tess on August 14 2012, 12:59 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Whites only? How do you conclude that all these emigrants are white? I have black cousins who have emigrated to Australia and Canada! There were almost 400,000 South Africans who left South Africa between 1960 and 1990 - most of them black... by Selomo on August 14 2012, 13:04 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Turning the table indeed! In turning the tables we've become the economic powerhouse of Africa, "leading the continent in industrial output and mineral production and generating a large proportion of Africa's electricity. We have abundant natural resources, well-developed . .more financial, legal, communications, energy and transport sectors, a stock exchange ranked among the top 20 in the world, and a modern infrastructure supporting efficient distribution of goods throughout the southern African region." The ANC inherited the most wretched two nation country on earth, one white and well off and the other black, grossly under developed and poor. Our new democracy has created massive expectations and sometimes violent impatience among the wretched and poor black masses, ask Zille she knows.. It took whites more than a hundred years to turn their living conditions around and we are only 18 years into our turnaround mission. Most of our mineral wealth was pillaged and sent to Europe. Ours is a history of the original blood diamonds which form part of the Crown Jewels of the UK that adorn playboy kings and queens and finance their obscene lifestyles. Some of you forget that in this period of British conquests thousands of 'Zulus' died in order to allow you to live a life of unimaginable luxury. . .less by Veja on August 14 2012, 13:17 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Those that flee (1) After WW2 and the communist take over of Eastern Europe, East Germany installed a communist regime that made life difficult for anybody that did not subscribe to their political and economic philosophy. This resulted in thousands upon thousands of Germans . .more fleeing to the west, taking with them their expertise and value system. Initially this suited the commie regime fine because that way you got rid of all these people that felt critical about the way commies rule a country and were considered subversive of communism. But after a few years they suddenly realised that all the best people were leaving. To stop this they built the Berlin Wall. Today people like Veja and MFM are still at the stage the east Germans were prior to 1961. They revel in the fact that people that differ from them in appearance and value system are leaving for reasons that we all know very well as they flow from the present regimes policies. The ANC will not be able to build another Berlin Wall, they do not have the expertise or capability to do so. We all know how East Germany turned out as compared with West Germany. EG imploded together with the USSR, WG after being re-united with EG is again the dominant power in Europe. What I find tragic is that instead of working together to construct a better Seffrica we are fighting each other all the time. . .less by James Bell on August 14 2012, 13:45 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

So sad... South Africa was a great country, disproportionate to its size. Under the ANC, its incompetence, tolerance for crime, corruption and self-interest before country, South Africa will slide downwards faster and faster. As the saying goes - when the . .more going gets tough, the tough get going. People of competence, White, Indian, Coloured and Black will leave for where they are appreciated and where effort results in fair reward. The only hope is the DA, and the ANC will do everything to thwart it - as any comparison makes a mockery of the ANC! The biggest losers are the poor and the unemployed. Pity that they have so little insight into the selfish greed of the ANC! And don't vote with their minds! . .less by Dinks on August 14 2012, 13:58 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Those that flee (2) We can not change the past but we can to a large extent determine the future. What I find interesting is some of the statements Veja made. He complains about the British conquest of the Zulus. He complains about the pillaging of Africas . .more natural resources which ended up funding Europe and adorning the British crown jewels. He complains about the fact that the ANC inherited the most wretched two nation country on earth, one white and well off and one black and poor. And then he uses the fact that the ANC did not inherit a perfect happy and well functioning state as justification that it is yet to soon to comment, let alone criticize the ANC for their performance. However, Veja, that being so is also true of what the NATS inherited in 1948, a state consisting of many black nations, poor and under developed, a white Afrikaans speaking nation , poor and powerless after Anglo Boer war2 and an English speaking people, many of them very well off and considering themselves as still members of the British Empire. Yet, it was expected that the NATS whose main support base was Afrikaners, had to immediately uplift everybody in the Union of SA, give everybody the vote, which would have meant political suicide as 1994 proved, and create a unified Seffrican nation where everybody would live happily and peacefully together. . .less by James Bell on August 14 2012, 13:59 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Those that flee (3) And the fact that the NATS did not succeed is held against them in perpetuity. The simple fact of the matter is that the Union of South Africa was not a natural State, it was an artificial creation, similar to the Roman Empire, the German . .more Empire, and the Russian Empire (USSR). The Union of SA and subsequent RSA will also never be a natural State, the peoples in it are too dissimilar. The mere fact that we all live within the same borders does not make us a nation. We differ in appearance but more importantly in culture and value systems, language etc. No amount of coercion is going to turn Zulu, Xhosa, Sotho, Tswana, Venda, Afrikaner and Anglophile into a nation one of mind and one of soul with a common destiny. The window for solving this dilemma existed only for the first 10 years after WW2, it is now gone forever. . .less by James Bell on August 14 2012, 14:10 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Veja on August 14 2012, 13:17 >>"In turning the tables we've become the economic powerhouse of Africa," SA was the powerhouse of Africa with the best infrastructure - it is probably only a question of time before Nigeria will overtake SA. The adoption of the . .more Constitution, 1996 gave SA the opportunity to develop an inclusive democracy to be proud of and to "turn the tables" on racism and tribalism. The fact that productive whites are leaving is indicative that SA has become a racist corrupt paradise for all sorts of criminals and above all a killing field. In SA 30 persons per 100000 are murdered whilst the international average is 7,6/100000. In SA 44 murders and 154 rapes are recorded on average every single day. Nothing to be proud of. >>"Ours is a history of the original blood diamonds which form part of the Crown Jewels of the UK that adorn playboy kings and queens and finance their obscene lifestyles." Correct - amongst others 55000 South-African civilians were killed during the period 1899 - 1902 including 21000 people in the Black Concentration Camps of the British. But that is history. More pressing: The ANC actively assisted companies such as the unpatriotic Anglo-American in the post-apartheid SA to move offshore and your twisted morality allows you to after the fact complain about their behaviour and to blame all whites irrespective. . .less by TheDrake on August 14 2012, 14:14 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Low wages are better than no wages! Which is what tBlacks had before, and since they elders and chiefs refused to allow boys to be educated because "our culture" dictated they look after cows, they grew into illiterate men who could ONLY provide cheap labour! by Lyndall Beddy on August 14 2012, 14:29 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

60,000 Black Graduates were leaving Africa every year According to "The Trouble With Africa: Why Foreign Aid is not Working" by Robert Calderisi. by Lyndall Beddy on August 14 2012, 14:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Huge loss of talent There will probably never be accurate statistics, but all the evidence points to a massive exodus of talented, qualified and mainly young people with the sorts of skills that are desperately needed here. Whatever the reasons for their leaving, the sad . .more fact is that their departure impoverishes the country. The end result is that mediocrity replaces excellence, so condemning South Africa to weak economic performance for years to come. . .less by William on August 14 2012, 14:40 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Tjek out Checkers, Pick n Pay, etc.... What sort of colour, age, demographics are represented in your weekly, daily, whatever, visits ? How does that compare with 5, 10, 15 years ago ? From the outside looking in, my visits seem to reveal no shortage of older . .more whities, but few young families & youngsters. When chewing the cud with a mate in Josie on a recent visit (he is an old hand in adult education for the mining artisans), his yardstick was simple but equally stark. "Where are all the appies ?"..... "ageing journeymen yes, but a paucity of appies coming through the system". There is a price being paid for all the crminal misbehaviour, opportunistic rhetoric, along with disgraceful stats for murder & rape. Not in a lump sum, but incrementally. When the SA mining-industrial-finacial engine finally wheezes to a standstill, who will fire it up & get it going again..... the diasporans ? Talking of stats, Zim claimed a decrease in AIDS deaths pretending to pat itself on the back. Except, the bulk of their sexually active poulation lives outside Zim. Migrating white SA brain drain could well be slowing statistically,.... simply because they are not many left to go. We can politic with these issues all we like, but the facts will ultimately BITE SA well & truly in the backside - count on it. Chikurubi-Alternative-Registrar :) . .less by John Austin on August 14 2012, 14:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Africa abhors talent William, the even sadder fact is that Africa loves seeing the brain drain. Africa seems to abhor talent and intellect, she seems to embrace ignorence, poverty, illness, violence and kicks opportunity in the face time and again. by Tess on August 14 2012, 14:59 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

by . on August 14 2012, 09:33 Fakester by . on August 14 2012, 15:09 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

And the reverse? How many UK, US, Australia, Canada have left their countries either for emigration or expat work assignments? More than 588 388 per country would be my bet... by . on August 14 2012, 15:11 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Statstastic This is like good propaganda for the folks left behind? hahahah,. who on earth would bring out such rubbish figures,.. lolol,.. 2006 is a fairly long time back i'd say,.. Codswallop,. whomever released this 'information' wants the remaining whites to . .more think,. ahh,. its not that bad now is it!? Just take a population count based on 90's figures,. and subtract the percentage of mates that have left from your inner circle or peers/friends,.. Its fair to say that 40-60% of whites have left,.. . .less by Flabberghastedliars on August 14 2012, 15:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

The Boers, the Africans and the Uitlanders The Boer escaped British dictatorship and trekked inland looking for better pastures and living on the land. They were a motley crew of freed slaves, semi-nomadic trek boers and poor frontier farmers. After protracted struggle they made peace with the . .more surrounding African communities until of course the dsicovery of diamonds and gold, our curse. This turned SA into a living nightmare for everyone including the Boers who tried to maintain their independence to no avail. They and the 'Zulus' were viciously attacked by the imperialist who dreamt of turning SA into a federation under the sovereignty of queen Victoria in the wake of the successful Canadian model. The plan was hatched in Whitehall and Sir Bartle Frere was dispatched to SA as the High Commissioner for the British Empire who became their points man. The Afrikaners sold out under the illusion that the pommies will support them forever, but that is another story The uitlander issue has always been a vexed one for us and now finally they are leaving in droves; going back to what? and they want my sympathy too? As usual they're hurling disrespectful insults at us on their way out. Somehow I believe that blacks and Afrikaners will forge a lasting union despite the vicious cynicism of the uitlanders, we have no choice but to live side by side and build a new SA . .less by Veja on August 14 2012, 15:30 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Coming Back I am a South African working in Taiwan for 10 years. I have recently bought a house in South Africa and hope to go back once my home loan is paid off. I am sure I am not the only expat who intends to return. by Mike on August 14 2012, 15:38 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Tess on August 14 2012, 14:59 >>"William, the even sadder fact is that Africa loves seeing the brain drain. Africa seems to abhor talent and intellect, she seems to embrace ignorence, poverty, illness, violence and kicks opportunity in the face time and again." An . .more unbelievable crude Harrison Bergeron dystopian society that handicap excellence and when well-meaning whites voice their concerns they are labelled racists. Demonizing "evil whites" with fallacious arguments are the official Strategy and Tactics of the SA liberation movement. These short-sighted drivers of the racist NDR believe that to supress productivity, talent and intellect with amongst others racial quotas to prevent entrance to higher education for deserving white children that have nothing to do with white minority rule and by banning white males from re-entering or entering the labour market with racist labour legislation as well as with cadre deployment, so-called Affirmative Action and BBBEE are not only logical but also the only way to improve the standard of living of the poor and unemployed. No wonder that the Failed State Index (FDI) does not consider a single state in Africa as “stable”. South Africa, Botswana, Seychelles and Ghana are the only “borderline” cases in a continent riddled with state failure. . .less by TheDrake on August 14 2012, 16:03 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

SA passport holder If I had the money I would leave tomorrow by voter on August 14 2012, 16:40 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Veja 15:30 (1) I am almost at a loss for words at what you wrote. It is the way we see it as well (well except for a small detail here and there). The Afrikaners that sold out were Jannie Smuts and the UP, later to become the PFP, DP and now the DA. After 1902 . .more Jannie Smuts, former Boer General, became so enamoured with the British that he became more British than Kind George himself. That is why he stabbed Afrikaners in the back and dragged them into WW2. That is also why Afrikaners rejected him and his party, the UP/PFP/DP/DA have never again won an election. The fact that the DA won the WC is not so much a win for the DA as that the ANC, for reasons well know, lost the WC. Yes there were clashes between blacks and Afrikaners in the past. These clashes were usually of a minor nature and resulted from things like stock theft or murder. The Blood River battle, which the Boers won, was a defensive action against the Zulu Kings mindless treachery and murder of Piet Retief. And then a very strange thing happened, the Boer left Natal. So much for them to have stolen land from the blacks. I agree with you that our mineral resources are more of a curse than a boon. It attracted the unwanted attention of the greedy and avaricious, first as individuals and later the Empire Builders. We all know who they were. The sad thing is these Empire Builders . .less by James Bell on August 14 2012, 17:59 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Veja 15:30 (2) ... managed to take control of most of Africa, cut it up into artificial states by drawing straight lines on maps, cut nations in half and arbitrarily allocate them in different countries and worst of all, set the indigenous peoples against one another in . .more accordance with the divide and rule principle. With clever propaganda Afrikaners have been demonized and blamed for all that went wrong as result of empire building. This was very aptly described by Afrikaner poet Eugene Marais in his poem about the little thorn tree. . .less by James Bell on August 14 2012, 18:06 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Too many mstakes It is very sad that so many white have left and are leaving SA. The Afrikaner unfortunately thought that he was building an "exclusive white state" and did not allow whites to come into this country as he wanted to keep it "pure" for himself. That was . .more probably the biggest selfish tragedy the past 60 years. The blacks now also want this country to be a "black African nation" and sadly resent whites and take delight when they hear of whites leaving (more mistakes). What made the USA great was the invitation to people of all nations and creeds at the right time in history. This country has been built by a great diversity of people and not only by the Afrikaner and the blacks. Sadly South Africans seem to miss the mark every time. . .less by @ Veja on August 14 2012, 18:06 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Mistake above. Meant to be @ Veja Too many 'mistakes" and so many "whites" (apology for that) by Wizard on August 14 2012, 18:09 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@Veja "Somehow I believe that blacks and Afrikaners will forge a lasting union despite the vicious cynicism of the uitlanders, we have no choice but to live side by side and build a new SA . " The Afrikaner will never accept you arrogant ineptitude .... by Boerseun on August 14 2012, 18:12 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@. You use big and extreme words like fakester. If you can prove fakery then you should follow your owbn advice and go to a policeman. In the meantime you claim ownership of something that cannot be owned. Who is the faker? by . on August 14 2012, 18:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

by . on August 14 2012, 18:24 Fakester by . on August 14 2012, 18:31 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Immigration challenges in Europe According to 2005 UN data there were more than 50 million immigrants who arrived in Europe from across the globe so knock yourselves out, you'll be competing with Pakistanis, Moroccans, East Europeans for jobs, housing , healthcare and schools for your . .more children etc. The sad part is that this is not sustainable and something has got to give. Right now there is a rise in anti-immigration sentiments across Europe and this is beginning to manifest itself in violence, racism and xenophobic attacks on immigrant communities. Political parties across the spectrum in France, UK, Germany have taken note of this trend and are now beginning to formulate and enact anti immigrant policies to appease their voting public. We certainly have challenges in this country and the way to deal with them is not by running away at the first sign of trouble or by being rabidly racist in your outlook. The Voortrekkers your white forebearer where widely known as a people who faced challenges head on and they certainly faced tougher and more intractable challenges than an ANC government struggling for votes; a picnic in the park compared to what they faced. So @TheDrake, Lyndal Beddy and the rest of the gang get over yourselves and channel your energies into something meaningful, the future of your children depends on it, be the change you want! . .less by Veja on August 14 2012, 18:44 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@. You use big and extreme words like fakester. If you can prove fakery then you should follow your owbn advice and go to a policeman. In the meantime you claim ownership of something that cannot be owned. Who is the faker? by . on August 14 2012, 19:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Imgrants They are jst going bck to whr they came frm ,nthng els by Blck on August 14 2012, 19:53 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@ Veja on August 14 2012, 18:44 >>"So @TheDrake,.... and the rest of the gang get over yourselves and channel your energies into something meaningful, the future of your children depends on it, be the change you want!" Please advise what the marginalized white minority should . .more do about the racist NDR, discriminatory labour legislation, university quotas, cadre deployment, murder, rape, house robberies, farm attacks, hijackings etc.? Africa is ruining our collective future: "Binedell lamented that Africa's biggest export was not resources, but talent, as 50% of professionals had left their countries of origin across Africa, while in a failed state like Zimbabwe it was as high as 70%." http://www.fin24.com/Economy/South-Africa/ANCYL-dangerous-because-theyre-right-20110816-2 And ANC hate speech - "awudubul' ibhunu" and "dubula amabhunu baya raypha." http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=317075&sn=Detail Those South-Africans that under these circumstances want to contribute to the success of the country do not need abuse from the government of the day and its supporters - no one can blame youngsters if they rather plan to leave as soon as the can. @ Blck on August 14 2012, 19:53 >>"They are jst going bck to whr they came frm ,nthng els." Your schadenfreude is disgusting. . .less by TheDrake on August 14 2012, 21:07 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

@TheDrake This is your country too, start an all inclusive political movement and reclaim your birth right! No use crying it's not going to solve anything. by Veja on August 14 2012, 21:48 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Immigration Data You can argue the statistics till you're blue in the face. What it boils down to is that I miss my friends and family. by Rico The Sane on August 14 2012, 22:22 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

whites leaving They must not come back we doing a bad job we need all these foreign white liberals to go fast more jobs for the Africans ang Afrikaners go liberals go to youre mother land by pang on August 14 2012, 22:41 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

by . on August 14 2012, 19:15 Fakester by . on August 15 2012, 02:41 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

SA Emigration Stats I would say the emigration figures are mostly accurate. Certainly, my experience in Aus, NZ and UK where I have asked relevant Govt. depts. would substantiate this. The wild exaggerations come from people in these faraway places who want to rationalize . .more their departure and their decision. Having said that it is the trends that interest me. Anecdotal evidence from removal companies tells us that the trend has reversed and that more people, some of them returnees, are coming back to SA than are leaving, the ratio, they tell me is 3:1 in favour of returnees. In the Global Competitiveness report, our Brain Drain has moved from 80th out of 142 countries to 46th, Aus is at 26th and NZ at 84th. So there are 100 countries that have a greater Brain Drain than SA does, many of them in the developed world. Nevertheless it remains an elusive statistic. By the way Africa receives more in repatriated funds from its Diaspora than in total foreign aid. Last year the Economist reported that 5 million ‘young people’ had left the UK over the past 10 years due to the ‘loss of the British way of life’. So, who really knows? . .less by Steuart on August 15 2012, 09:58 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Who are these people that are going back to SA I've been living in the UK for 11 years now, I would like to think that I have a relatively large circle of Saffa friends, in this circle of friends they also know many saffa's living in the UK. During my time here I know of 3 couples in our circle that . .more has moved back to SA, now I ask you all, where are all these other saffa's that are moving back to SA as I don't know any or I never hear of any, nor do I speak to any that have any plans of moving back. Is this all hype and bull S*** to try and lure saffa's back to SA, i.e. if everyone is doing it must be right therefore I must do it too? As for the statistics, I find it exceptionally hard to believe that there are 227 000 saffa's in the UK. I live outside of London and you simply cannot go anywhere without hearing a saffa. In my small road which comprises of approximately 30 houses there are 3 South African families, it used to be 4 however my neighbour has since moved to a bigger house down the road. With a population of 60 million plus in the UK, finding a saffa would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. . .less by Markie on August 15 2012, 22:38 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Oh and another thing... The reason why there has been a sharp decline in saffa's coming into the UK is due to the British government doing away with the two year working holiday visa. They cottoned on to the fact that many saffa's were using this visa to get into the UK then . .more never leave. I no longer hear or see that many younger saffa's in the UK, however the older group (30 to 50 year old's) are going strong. One thing I have noticed recently is I hear and see more and more black saffa's in the UK, even they have had enough of the ANC, violence and the lack of a future. I say good on them, if you can get into the UK or any other European country then do it. Saffa's are hard working people and it's already been noticed the employers. . .less by Markie on August 15 2012, 22:45 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Time to leave Africa SA population 2011 stats 51.8 million people whites= 4,5 million ost above age 50 years. Blacks=41 million people. Uncounted people around 14.6% meaning 7,5 million people many of these live in remote areas. Lastly we have about 10 million . .more African immigrants this figure might be more. Today in SA there are Nigerian,Zimbabwean,Congolese born in SA kids than whites. Im afraid SA will be another NIGERIA SOOON!!!! . .less by Heinrich83 on October 31 2012, 14:35 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

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