Question 5:
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, Naledi Pandor (for The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development): Madam Deputy Speaker, the reply to the question is as follows: With respect to (1) over the period of April 2008 to March 2009 the committee did consider and authorised arms sales transactions to a number of countries.
Since its assumption of duty on 21 July 2009, the current committee has considered and approved the 2008 National Conventional Arms Control Committee annual report. This annual report was prepared in compliance with the provisions of section 23 of the National Conventional Arms Control Act of 2002. To that end this annual report covers the 2008 calendar year, as prescribed by section 23 of the Act.
The committee is on the process of tabling the 2008 annual report to Parliament. The countries and arms categories that are involved in these transactions are reflected in that annual report. In view of this, the House and hon members are requested to allow the tabling of the 2008 annual report to take place. Once this is done, the committee will be available to Parliament to discuss the contents of the annual report.
We answer in this fashion, Madam Deputy Speaker, because the list of transactions is extremely long and is in the annual report in full. Members of the portfolio committee have invited the chairperson of the control committee to appear before the portfolio committee on 2 September. The meeting is already on the committee timetable of meetings. Therefore the committee will have the opportunity to peruse and consider the full details of that report.
With respect to part (2) of the question, as far as the newly constituted National Conventional Arms Control Committee is concerned, all meetings held thus far have been based on prescribed quorum requirements. With respect to the 2008 calendar year, the report that will be tabled to Parliament reflects business conducted in terms of the said Act.
Mr David Maynier: Madam Deputy Speaker, we say in the preamble to legislation regulating the conventional arms trade that our country is a responsible member of the international community and will not trade in conventional arms with states engaged in repression, aggression and terrorism.
Now, the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, under the leadership of Minister Jeff Radebe, stepped up to the plate and did the right thing when they recently refused to authorise the sale of thousands of aviator G-suits to Iran. Will the Minister once again step up to the plate and do the right thing, and give this House the assurance that she will stop the sale of thousands of sniper rifles to Syria and millions of rounds of ammunition to Zimbabwe?
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (for The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development): Madam Deputy Speaker, as I have indicated, when we conduct our business as a committee we do so in terms of the Act and its provisions. I do not deviate in any way in my reply from that assurance to the House.
Mr Mike Ellis: Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a bit of a confusion here: The hon Maynier would like to ask a second supplementary question.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr Maynier, if you are serious about the second question, can you do that?
Mr David Maynier: Madam Deputy Speaker, I am serious. The National Conventional Arms Control Committee is due, as the Minister says, to appear before the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans on Wednesday, 2 September 2009; will the Minister be prepared to provide members of the portfolio committee with copies of the minutes of all meetings of the NCACC as well as copies of the minutes of all meetings and supporting documentation of the scrutiny committee which advised the NCACC over the past five years before that meeting? If the Minister has nothing to hide she surely must be prepared to provide the documents to the members of the committee. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I am a little surprised. The hon member indicated that he is fully aware of the contents of the Act and its provisions. I do not recall any section of the Act, which I have read copiously as he has done, that demands the sorts of documents he has referred to. What the committee will get is the annual report, as required in section 23 of the Act. As to other documentation, I think that matter will be dealt with in the process of the meeting, but there is no requirement in the Act for such. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr David Maynier: Madam Deputy Speaker ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Surely, you know that you cannot ask a third question. You can ask a maximum of two questions, Mr Maynier.
Mr Mike Ellis: Madam Deputy Speaker, the Rules make it quite clear that there will be four supplementary questions to every question, but the Rules do not indicate that any one person is limited to two questions only - the Rules do not state that. And, one person can ask all four supplementary questions if there are no other supplementary questions from any other party.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are there any other further supplementary questions?
Mr David Maynier: Yes, there are.
Ms Dianne Kohler Barnard: The hon Maynier would like this question, I am asking for the following one, so that I am not put last on the list again.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is that a question or a comment?
Ms Dianne Kohler Barnard: Madam Deputy Speaker, I was answering your request.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Maynier, I shall very reluctantly allow you the third one, which will be the last one.
Mr Mike Ellis: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: Why would you reluctantly allow him a third question, and if necessary ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Because there has been a practice of allowing two questions and this session is so that everybody can ask questions, not just one person ... [Interjections.]
Mr Mike Ellis: If I may, Madam Deputy Speaker ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I don't think we are going to have a dialogue, Mr Ellis. [Interjections.]
Mr Mike Ellis: Madam Deputy Speaker, it's a very important principle, because what happens today will happen in the future. I will write to you and we will sort it out. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ellis! Do that at another time. Let us not have a dialogue. Hon Maynier? [Interjections.]
Mr David Maynier:: Madam Deputy Speaker, the Deputy Minister of International Relations and Co-operation, Mr Ebrahim Ebrahim, recently made a very welcome statement on the situation in Burma. He said that the government of South Africa was deeply saddened and regretted the decision of the Myanmar authorities to convict Aung San Suu Kyi on charges of subversion.
It appears that this government has made a foreign policy about-turn, and for once we support the democrats rather than the dictators. But it was not always so and in this light, would the Minister tell this House whether the National Conventional Arms Control Committee has ever authorised or refused any permit in relation to conventional arms transfers to the military regime in Burma?
Mr M S Booi: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I thought that there was some clarity in that the law states that one should not go into details on what has been presented before the committee. I thought that the hon member had read the law, and the law just says that a particular report will be presented to Parliament.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Booi. Can we ask the Minister to be the one to decide on that?
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Madam Deputy Speaker, that is a very different question. However, in terms of the information available to me, all details with respect to countries and types of arms purchased will be in the 2008 report submitted to Parliament - all countries and the types of arms provided or sold.
This is an extract from the unrevised Hansard, national assembly, parliament, Cape Town, August19 2009
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