DOCUMENTS

Lekota's allegations against Ramaphosa: Full transcript

What COPE leader said in parliament about the President and the Security Police (13 Feb 2019)

Transcript of COPE President Mosiuoa Lekota’s speech in the debate on President Cyril Ramaphosa’s State of the Nation Address, Parliament, 13 February 2019

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Lekota, the President just stepped out. Please continue.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Madam Chairperson ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please, just hold on, sir, before your time starts running. Hon members, I do have a member at the podium. Please! Hon Lekota, please start.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Madam Chairperson, shouldn’t I wait for the President? [Interjections.] I would like ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No! No, hon Lekota! Now you are wasting your time. Please proceed. [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: No, no, no! The President addressed me when he was here at the podium. I want the President because I want to provide answers to some of the things he said to me. [Interjections.] He called me by name. He called me by name. He spoke ... no, he spoke ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Lekota! Please hold the time. Hon Lekota, you now amaze me. You have been sitting in these benches since 1994. You know that during the state of the nation address ...

Mr M G P LEKOTA: I was going to reply to ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, I am addressing you, hon Lekota. I am addressing you. No, hon members! This amnesia is amazing. [Interjections.] Hon members, the President, or any other Minister, is just a human being. They do have a chance to go out and to come back. Since 1994, hon Lekota, you and I have borne witness ... in fact, there were instances when the President would not even be here. He has a staff complement here: deputies, Ministers, and people who will take notes to keep him updated when he comes in. So, please proceed with the debate, sir. [Interjections.] Hon Lekota, you may continue with your speech. [Interjections.] I do not want this interaction, hon Lekota. I had to rule on you.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Madam Chairperson ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Lekota, if you do not utilise the four minutes allocated to you, you will forfeit it.

Ms D CARTER: Hon Chairperson, can we not make a proposal that the ANC speaks and, when the President gets back, my leader can speak?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No. [Interjections.]

Ms D CARTER: The reply is a reply to the state of the nation address delivered by the President of a country and not to the Deputy President or to anyone else. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member, take your seat! Hon member, please let me deal with this matter. Hon Lekota, you can proceed with your speech. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

Dr M Q NDLOZI: He must not hold the House to ransom like this. Our people are listening, Lekota. Our people are listening.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No! Hon member ...

Dr M Q NDLOZI: The forces of the national democratic revolution are listening.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, you are not ... you have not been recognised. May I just address you once again, hon Lekota: Please, you cannot hold us to ransom. You are allocated a slot. The list of speakers was circulated. Order! You must proceed with your speech. If you do not want to take that opportunity to speak, I can tell you now that you are going to forfeit the time. Please proceed.

Dr M Q NDLOZI: Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, his time has expired. The four minutes are gone.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, it has not expired. [Interjections.]

Dr M Q NDLOZI: No, your time is up, chief. Woza!

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, no! It has not expired. Please take your seat. Please take your seat! I am addressing this point so that this hon member does not think the President has no time or right to step out of the House and that the debate can be stopped. Please proceed, sir.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Madam Chairperson and Mr President, I ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please allow the member to proceed. Hon Lekota, you are now protected.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Madam Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, last week, the President stood on this spot when he invited me, amongst others, to join him. I don’t know on what trip. [Laughter.] I do want to say to the President today that I was a bit puzzled that he included Roosevelt in what he spoke about. I’d like to say we must come back to South Africa because I was never in the United States to struggle. We struggled here. [Interjections.]

I do want to say to you, Mr President, that we were invited on a struggle trip by the pre-eminent student leader of our time, the late Steve Biko, who said to us that we must fight for the struggle. He said that in case of danger or living conditions that threaten human life, we must accept life for what it is or not at all. It did not take very long, two years or so – because that was around 1972. Round about 1974, we went into detention, among other things. In the course of that, we had to respond to this challenge. [Interjections.] I want to say to you that you invited me last week. We had to respond to that challenge. Your invitation last week was late. The challenge we had to respond to was at that time and you, with us, in detention. When it was difficult, you wrote to the Special Branch that we put communist ideas in your head. In doing so, you condemned us to the Special Branch. [Interjections.]

I say this to you ... [Interjections.] No, no! I say this to you because the Special Branch rewarded you, as they always reward their victims, and they sent you home. We headed to Robben Island. [Interjections.] You should have responded. This invitation you issued on Thursday, you should have issued then. We should have travelled together to the island to serve in the struggle for our people. [Interjections.] Yes! I will not join you on the trip you are suggesting. I will not join you because you made your choice then, and I ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: There is a point of order. Hon Lekota, please take your seat. [Interjections.] You rose on a point of order, madam.

Ms T V TOBIAS: Chairperson, the Rules do not allow for personal reflections to be made on members, specifically in this case. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member, I am going to allow the hon Lekota to conclude. Order! The President is quite capable of dealing with whatever matter. Please proceed, hon Lekota.

Mr J S MALEMA: Chair ...

Mr M G P LEKOTA: My time is almost finished.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Lekota, please take your seat. Hon Malema?

Mr J S MALEMA: We want to offer the hon Lekota eight minutes of the EFF’s remaining time. [Applause.] Is it allowed, Chair?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That is not allowed, sir. Please take your seat. That is not a point of order!

Mr J S MALEMA: Alright, but can you use your powers to extend his time, please?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No. Hon Lekota ...

Mr J S MALEMA: This issue of selling out is very important.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Lekota, please continue. Please watch the clock.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: The only point I wanted to make is that that was the time the choices were made. I made my choice to go down with our people. You made your choice to go with them. [Interjections.] Now you are inviting us to join you in the corruption of Bosasa, in the corruption of all of these things you have been doing with the others. I am sorry, sir. I will stay with the people in Khayelitsha, in Shawela in Soweto, and so on. The day we get out of there, it will not be to go to the fleshpots of Egypt. It will be to go with our people when freedom is there for everybody. [Interjections.]

I thank you. I am grateful you are a billionaire. Keep the billions, and thank you for that, but we are not going to take part with you. I am not joining that trip. Thank you. [Interjections.] If you are interested to hear, you must come to our launch. [Applause.]

ENDS

Source: Unrevised transcript.